David, Here is a paper describing the chemical and physical mechanisms inside a Li-Ion cell that cause self-discharge. Happy reading! http://www.che.sc.edu/faculty/popov/drbnp/WebSite/MSA-calendar.pdf
Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of David Nelson via EV Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 4:37 PM To: Bill Dube; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Zero self-discharge" (was: Bicycle battery) Bill, I have dug through many scientific papers on Li batteries and how they work and I haven't been able to find anything about a theoretical self-discharge mechanism. I have found some explicitly talking about the lack of a charge shuttle mechanism like in lead-acid batteries, however. One paper I read has a section devoted to figuring out a charge shuttle mechanism to add to a Li cell. It isn't a paper for the faint of heart, however. It is "Nonaqueous Liquid Electrolytes for Lithium-Based Rechargeable Batteries" by Kang Xu published in the Chemical Review, 2004, Vol. 104, No. 10, pp. 4303-4417 and published on the web 09/16/2004. While I'm sure I don't get it 100% of the time I try to make sure I say, "LiFePO4 cells have no theoretical self discharge mechanism." This, according to all I have been able to find on the cells, is true. Also, the most ardent anti-BMS people I have found have in fact done a lot of searching of the scientific literature and came to the same conclusion. It was not just something they made up to support their anti-BMS position. If you have other literature showing what the self-discharge mechanism is please share it. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > This "zero self-discharge" myth seems to be a common thread with the > "anti-BMS" crowd. I don't know where this misinformation comes from. > > All cells have self-discharge. It is just a matter of degree. > Also, the self-discharge varies from cell to cell. That's why you need a BMS. > These are well-documented facts for all those that care to > investigate, either through the scientific literature or by simply > systematically testing cells for themselves (as Lee Hart has done.) > > I strongly suspect the "zero self-discharge" myth comes from > the same unscientific source that the anti-BMS myth has sprung from. > > Bill D. > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 http://www.levforum.com _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
