Hopefully you saw some places to find the information you wanted in my follow-up post.
Use the data how you see fit, draw your own conclusions. I just want to see people use accurate information. But the “wha-a-a” moment was when I saw that you drive a hybrid. Why on earth would you drive a hybrid? There are plenty of EV options out there, INCLUDING FCEVs! Some of us like clean air, chief! You’re complaining about FCEV efficiency while you’re running an ICE motor?! LOL! - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Aug 25, 2021, at 9:42 AM, Peter VanDerWal via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > >> >> You are definitely in great shape for at-home charging. Hopefully that is >> usually sufficient for >> you. > > We bought the Chevy Volt in 2017 and the Chevy Bolt in 2019. > > I have never paid to charge the Volt, mostly it gets charged at home but > occasionally it gets charged using one of the thousands of free Level-2 > charging stations. > > We have driven the Volt up to Oregon a couple times to visit my mom (~1500 > miles each way) and I have driven out to San Jose a couple times (~900 > miles). My wife an I are both in our late fifties so we no longer like to do > marathon driving trips, so we typically only drive 8-10 hours a day one long > trips. Our criteria for selecting hotels is that they offer free EV charging, > which is actually becomming pretty common these days. We almost always stop > in Blyth for an hour or two to take a break and use the free charger there, > and usually stop somewhere between LA and Sacremento to take a break and use > one of the free chargers there. > On the trips to my mom's only about 200 miles (each way) is done on electric, > the rest of the trip uses about 30 gallons of gas (each way) > On the trips to San Jose each way is about 120-130 miles on electric and > about 19 gallons of gas. > I haven't tried these trips with the Bolt yet because the DC fast chargers > needed to get from Phoenix to California weren't installed until last year. > > However, I have driven the bolt to Phoenix and back(190 miles each way) once > and numerous times to Tucson and back (90 miles each way) > In the 2 years I've owned the Bolt I have only twice paid to charge it. Once > just to see how it worked to use a DC fast charger, and a second time because > I drove up to the Tucson Airport expecting to park it there and charge for > free using level-1 charging (plenty fast enough for a 2-3 day trip) only to > have the trip rescheduled at the last minute and I didn't have enough charge > to get back home, so I spent ~10 minutes and $5 using the DC fast charger > near the airport rather than spending a couple hours using a free level-2 > charger. > >> On the hydrogen side, the $16.50 price was correct in 2019. > The article I got that number from was pusblish in late 2020, can you offer a > link to anything proving your claim? > >> The price is NOT subsidized by California. > The cost of fuel normally includes the cost to recoup the cost of building > the station, since California paid for 80% of the Station they ARE > subsidizing the cost of the fuel. > >> With the newer stations and greater competition they are starting to come >> down and will >> come down. > Again, can you offer any proof of that? > >> But the consumer doesn’t pay that, with one exception. They pay nothing for >> three years. > > All Teslas sold before 2017 come with lifetime free supercharging, model S > and X come with lifetime free supercharging. , model 3 and Y come with 1 > year of free supercharging. Destination charger (level 2) are almost always > free. > VW comes with 3 years of free charging, the Ionic comes with 1 year of free > charging, I believe Nissan used to offer free charging. > This is in addition to the thousands of EV charging stations that are free to > everyone. > A far as I can tell, every state in the Union has at least 50 free charging > stations, most have several hundred. > >> The OEMs pick that up, and offer even more perks to the “pioneers” (things >> like free car rentals). >> Most lease, but if you bought, like I did for my first one, it becomes >> expensive after three years. >> >> >> The cost of stations *is* subsidized by California (as is EVSE), but the >> stations are not costing >> $2 million. I think the earlier ones did, but costs are coming down. My >> guess is the last group of >> funded stations were $1.25M per station with four times the fueling bays, >> and 5-10 times the fuel >> capacity of the previous ones. That’s an educated guess, but the recent >> numbers are out there. >> >> The amount of subsidy, in %, has also dropped significantly. I think it’s >> only 40%, but don’t trust >> my memory. > > Again, the $2 million figure, with $1.6 million subsidy was from an artical > publishdd last year, can you offer any proof of your claims? > >> >> Your use of cost of electricity per station (which seems *very* cheap) isn’t >> the right number to >> use, as most hydrogen is not produced at the station. If you are assuming >> the electricity rates >> that you may know at charging stations (a guess on my part), I think that >> would be wrong anyway, >> because I think that EVSE get special rates that electrolyzers don’t get. > > It doesn't matter where it's produced, unless you are making it from fossile > fuels, etc. the ammount of electricty required is the same. > The 7-9 cents is a widely published figure for California's "green" hydrogen. > The vast majority of public EVSEs pay 'bussiness' rates for electricity > which averages over 10 cents per kWh. > > One more time, since you keep ignoring this, assuming "green" hydrogen, it > takes 3-4 times as much electricity per mile for FCEV vs BEV. There is > nothing you can dream up that will change this, MAYBE sometime in the future > that can bring that down to 2x as much, but that is currently a pipe dream. > Assuming comparable costs for electricity, that makes Hydrogen 3-4 times as > expensive BEFORE you start adding the extra costs for making Hydrogen > (infrastructure costs, maintenance costs, etc.) > > Without special subsidies, green hydrogen will NEVER be as cheap to use as > straight electricity. > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
