On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: > Good question, and one which is repeatedly asked by many within and outside > the faith. God, in His complete knowledge, knows each and every soul and who > is worthy of eternal bliss and who not. However, according to a decree, > humans have been granted respite and an opportunity to believe and do good. > Something like an exam for a degree or a quality-check and sorting of > manufactured goods. This necessarily requires a belief in an event no longer > in conscious human memory, but which nevertheless is the cause of this life, > and the belief in Accountability for beliefs and actions in a life after this > life. Either one reasons that outcomes are already known to God hence there > really is no need to 'do' anything, or one intensifies one's effort to search > for 'truth' and do as much good as may be possible, so as to take full > advantage of this temporal life, using it for eternal bliss.
But the problem is that either I reason that the outcome is already known or not, it is indeed already known, according to what you said before. So we're just watching as it unfolds. > My understanding may be wrong, for all we know this may be the only life, > nothing before or after, but what if there is? If there is, and my life is predetermined and I'm still going to be punished or rewarded, then it's just a matter of waiting and seeing if I win the cosmic lottery no? You still didn't address the problem that you cannot have predetermination and free-will at the same time. > And how difficult is it to believe in this age of technology that all is > being recorded and will be replayed? Reasons enough to bother... What do you mean by replayed? If the same moment is perfectly replayed, then it's indistinguishable from all other instances of the same moment. There's still just one moment. Otherwise they are different moments, and it's not a replay. Telmo. > Samiya > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 02-Dec-2013, at 10:51 PM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Below, I'm paraphrasing from memory a couple of passages: >>> On the subject of the persecution of the 'Bani Israel' Children of Israel >>> by Pharoah, such that the male children were being killed and females kept >>> alive, It reads that it was a great trial from God. >>> At another place, it reads that know that whatever happens to you, good or >>> bad, it is all inscribed in a decree before we bring it into existence. >>> This is so that you do not despair of whatever passes you by, nor exult >>> over ... >>> There is a lot going on all over the world that one would like to wish >>> away, but it helps to understand that all things / events / circumstances >>> are trials, temporary and transient. In this life, nothing is a reward or >>> punishment, rather everything is a trial, and an opportunity to do good >>> deeds through helping those in need. Reward and Punishment are concepts >>> associated with the Hereafter, and are of a permanent nature. >>> No, he didn't say "Oops!", God exhorts us to reflect and ponder! >> >> Hi Samiya, >> >> If whatever happens is inscribed in a decree before we bring it into >> existence, so is the outcome of the trials. So why bother? >> >> Telmo. >> >>> Samiya >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 02-Dec-2013, at 10:09 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 02 Dec 2013, at 13:39, Samiya Illias wrote: >>>> >>>>> I agree that God is consistent. In my understanding, God is perfect in >>>>> every possible meaning of the word. >>>> >>>> Is God perfect for the children in Syria? (Easy question on an hard >>>> subject) >>>> >>>> Here, you might hope that God will succeed in consolating them and that >>>> everything is OK. But that state of mind might make us accept more easily >>>> the tragedies, and that fatalism ... might be fatal for the incarnation of >>>> the good. >>>> >>>> The question, put in a another way, who are you to judge God's perfection? >>>> >>>> You might, like Gödel, assume that God has all positive attributes and as >>>> such is perfect, and one day we will understand the tragedies, but I am >>>> not sure such a God makes sense for the universal machines. >>>> >>>> If it makes sense, then I am willing to bet it is a truth belonging to G*, >>>> and not G. That would mean that God was perfect ... until you said so. >>>> >>>> The theological truth must remain silent, or be justified from some shared >>>> assumptions. >>>> >>>> If you say God is perfect to those who lost people they care about, it >>>> might be impolite, and you will again fuel atheism. >>>> >>>> Hell is paved with the best intentions. >>>> >>>> God might also not be perfect, and you might have the right to be angry >>>> against She/Him/It. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I was objecting to the assertion below that 'Most theistic philosophers >>>>> and theologians who have considered the issue agree that God did not >>>>> create the laws of math and logic, and does not have the power to alter >>>>> them (or any other "necessary" truths, >>>> >>>> God created logic and the integers, and arithmetic. Then he said "Oops!". >>>> >>>> Analysis, Topology, Algebra, Physics, History, Geography, archeology and >>>> Theology are tools for the integers to understand themselves. >>>> >>>> Truth already warns the numbers: the path is infinite and there are >>>> surprises. >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>>> >>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
