On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:
> Jason, > > Because it's not the computations themselves, but the fact they occur in > the Present Time locus of reality that makes them real that is relevant... > > So your answer is that they can't be real computations unless they occur in the present moment? This seems somewhat circular. Jason > > > On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:01:43 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote: >> >>> Jason, >>> >>> Not quite. The CONTENTS of conscious are the results of computations. >>> The FACT of consciousness itself, that the computations are conscious, is >>> due to the self-manifesting nature of reality as explained in the other >>> post. >>> >>> The rest of your questions don't follow. The fact that reality is real >>> and actually exists means it must be present. That presence of reality >>> self-manifests as the shared common present moment we all experience our >>> existence within, which is the shared locus of reality, and that present >>> moment is the only locus of reality. Therefore no block time, no MW, etc. >>> >>> >> If the contents of conscious are the results of computations, and the >> course of the computations is identical under presentism or block time, >> then shouldn't the contents of the consciousness be the same whether >> presentism or block time is true? I don't follow why you say that doesn't >> follow. Could you elaborate? >> >> >> Jason >> >> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:06:51 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 31, 2013, at 8:28 AM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edga...@att.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Jason, >>>> >>>> Thanks for asking. I'll start a new topic on Consciousness hopefully >>>> sometime today as it is clearly an important topic on its own..... >>>> >>>> Edgar >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 12:13:26 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Jason Resch <jason...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you think a computer can be conscious? >>>>>> >>>>>> If yes, then do you think the experience of the consciousness within >>>>>> the computer would be different if the computer existed in a block-time >>>>>> universes instead of a moving-present universe? If so, how/what would >>>>>> cause the states of the evolving computer program to take a different >>>>>> course in the block universe vs. the moving present universe? If you see >>>>>> no reason the computations should diverge, then you must agree the states >>>>>> reached by the computer program are the same, and since they are the same >>>>>> the conscious program could not behave any differently. This includes >>>>>> any >>>>>> realization that it is in a block-time vs. a moving-present universe. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Edgar, >>>>> >>>>> I am particularly curious to hear what you think of the above >>>>> reasoning. It seems that it applies to your theory which I believe at some >>>>> level holds that the right computations can produce consciousness. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Edgar, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your reply in the other thread. I see you answer that >>>> consciousness is the result of a computation. >>>> >>>> If a conscious computation believes and feels like it is in a single >>>> moving present moment, do you agree it will feel this way so long as the >>>> same computation is performed, regardless of the hardware that executed it? >>>> >>>> If so, shouldn't it follow that whether the computation exists in a >>>> moving present or in a block universe, that the conscious computation will >>>> still feel and believe it exists in a single present moment? >>>> >>>> I don't see how any theory that uses the computational theory of mind >>>> can escape this conclusion. As a consequence of it, we cannot use our >>>> feeling of existing in a single present as any kind of true indicator for >>>> what the reality of the matter is. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at <http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
