I shan't suggest that our rugged collective ancestors were happier than we, less spoiled yes, but happier no. Have any of you folks visited the US? It is, for whatever its worth is a nation state of about 320 million inhabitants. Dopamine is not justice, nor, is it respect for one's fellow primates, but do you view it as a place where the streets run red with blood? What communities in the US are the most violent? I am not trying to dissuade you folks of your views, but am fascinated by the notion, that, because we are easier on criminals, life is thus, better, and so are we, as societies. In the 1990's the US experienced a domestic terrorist strike in Oklahoma, City in 1995. In 1993, the Muslim Brotherhood tried the same thing, but failed, in 1993 at the Twin Towers in NYC. Timothy MacVeigh was executed, and I see that as the right revenge for Breivik. MacVeigh killed 164 people. No dopamine is necessary, and despite his sentencing, how long will Breivik remain in jail?
You could argue that we are unlucky to be living in 2014, and that our hunter-gatherer ancestors lead happier and more fulfilling lives. This might well be the case, because they were leading lives in the environment that they were evolved to live in. On the other hand, we have technology and reason on our side. We can create dopamine hits artificially to relieve people in need, without causing further violence. The only thing preventing us are superstitions inherited from a distant past. In 2011, Anders Breivik sought to punish race-traitors, and the Socialist Party summer camp, Telmo. -----Original Message----- From: Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 7:05 am Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 11:03 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: You may be correct indeed, but if being part of the "civilized world" protects violent, predatory, criminals, including, (drumroll) Islamists and Putin, the I suppose I will demur from being civilized. Most capital crimes, even in Texas, are crimes of passion. I don't see it (no death penalty) as being civilized, I view it as an excuse to be uncaring toward the victim's family. The desire for vengeance is hard-wired in our brains. We get a good dopamine hit from it, which might relief the suffering of people who are grieving. Now, in 2014, we can recognise this mechanism for what it is. It was probably useful for our hunter-gatherer ancestors, but it is maladaptive in a globalised world with 7 billion people and nuclear weapons. You could argue that we are unlucky to be living in 2014, and that our hunter-gatherer ancestors lead happier and more fulfilling lives. This might well be the case, because they were leading lives in the environment that they were evolved to live in. On the other hand, we have technology and reason on our side. We can create dopamine hits artificially to relieve people in need, without causing further violence. The only thing preventing us are superstitions inherited from a distant past. Telmo. The USA are alone in this. It's not some uncertain utopia, it has been fully achieved in most of the civilised world. -----Original Message----- From: Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 6:57 am Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 12:47 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: No death penalties. I am not sure I agree, but if this is the goal, then things need to be done really differently. Hum? Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Capital_punishment.PNG The USA are alone in this. It's not some uncertain utopia, it has been fully achieved in most of the civilised world. Telmo. I am not sure what you mean by "to seek my goal". -----Original Message----- From: LizR <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 6:48 pm Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! On 3 June 2014 10:28, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: To seek your goal I am guessing elements of society, law, and technology, must improve. I am not sure what you mean by "to seek my goal". For many, nothing is broken, or they have an interest in things continuing as they are. We'd have to get into problem soving mode to do all that. The world does not seem to be in a problem solving mood. This is of course true, "business as usual" is nideed in the process of destroying the world. Not sure what it has to do with the previous topic but FWIW I agree. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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