Let me ask you (perhaps this is a diversion?), if we punish people who have killed with a prison sentence, is that not also, a incoherent? Why punish anyone for anything, following the logic? It's a sickness right? Where do you get your idea on 'morality' or even social cohesion, on what is just, or unjust? How is this determined?
That's why its incoherent and hypocritical. Of course, all the proponents assume to have definitively solved the problem of evil. They have not put forward evidence of any kind. They just know. There's the ideological fixation. Not the statement that it's incoherent, because it is. PGC and- all the proponents assume to have definitively solved the problem of evil. I seriously, have never heard anyone, even on the religious right, claim this. Solving the problem of evil? Another diversion, maybe, what is evil, then. How would you define it? -----Original Message----- From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Jun 6, 2014 8:57 am Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:35 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: It's incoherent because you, ideologically, don't appear to like the idea of considering anything else than a ban on executions-so you can feel better. I get that already. Thinking or reflecting not allowed, yep. You mean incoherent frothing? OK. No it's incoherent because it doesn't even hold against populist slogans that expose the hypocrisy in 1 line, no flowery arguments or complex justifications: We kill people who kill people because killing people is wrong. That's why its incoherent and hypocritical. Of course, all the proponents assume to have definitively solved the problem of evil. They have not put forward evidence of any kind. They just know. There's the ideological fixation. Not the statement that it's incoherent, because it is. PGC -----Original Message----- From: LizR <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 5:07 pm Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! On 6 June 2014 05:04, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: Yes indeed, however because there is no parental physical violence permitted against the guilty, so a predatory pedophile, because we are not savages, because its just the same as execution if the accused is innocent, because we are a nation of laws, not men, simply jails the pedo, and the child, perhaps murdered goes un-avenged. This is my take. You mean incoherent frothing? OK. Death penalty does not make sense. I can understand personal individual revenge, and could acquit a parent killing the one who has been violent with his/her children, but I can't swallow the idea that a state coldly kill someone. This is close to nonsense and barbary. It does not deter people to kill, on the contrary it makes killing more banal or normal. It can even motivate a type of serial killing where the serial killer phantasms on his own death. Then it kills innocent people in a regular way. Countries with death penalty have usually more homicides than the others. Well, that's my opinion. Bruno -----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 3:14 am Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! On 04 Jun 2014, at 00:40, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: > No family, then it depends on the nature of the crime. Sparing a > killer for a price? This reminds me of why the US doesn't have race > riots anymore, like the LA Rodney King riots. Most often, there are > "settlements" as when police do unlawful killings, because the > family opts for the settlement. I am feeling that those nation > states that do not have death penalties, are opting, as a cultural > norm, Out of a sense of sqeamishness, which is understandable, > rather than real justice or mercy. "well, if we just don't have the > death penalty, we won't have to think about the victim." Death penalty does not make sense. I can understand personal individual revenge, and could acquit a parent killing the one who has been violent with his/her children, but I can't swallow the idea that a state coldly kill someone. This is close to nonsense and barbary. It does not deter people to kill, on the contrary it makes killing more banal or normal. It can even motivate a type of serial killing where the serial killer phantasms on his own death. Then it kills innocent people in a regular way. Countries with death penalty have usually more homicides than the others. Well, that's my opinion. Bruno > > -----Original Message----- > From: meekerdb <[email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 5:27 pm > Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! > > On 6/3/2014 2:03 PM, spudboy100 via Everything > List wrote: > > You may be correct indeed, but if being part > of the "civilized world" protects violent, predatory, > criminals, including, (drumroll) Islamists and Putin, the > I suppose I will demur from being civilized. Most capital > crimes, even in Texas, are crimes of passion. I don't see > it (no death penalty) as being civilized, I view it as an > excuse to be uncaring toward the victim's family. > > What if the victim doesn't have any family? Or what if the > family forgives the killer? Or excuses the killer for a price > (as in Pakistan)? At one time punishment for crimes like murder > was a matter of retribution by the family of the victim. But it > was because this led to feuds and vendettas and weregild, that > the Crown, later The State, took over the sole right to punish > crimes. > > Note that saying the U.S. imposes the death penalty is only > partly true. There is a military death penalty (which is true in > most armies) and a federal death penalty; but among the states 32 > have a death penalty and 18 do not. Most recently, Maryland > abolished the death penalty last year. > > Brent > > The USA are alone in this. It's not > some uncertain utopia, it has been fully achieved in most > of the civilised world. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 6:57 am > Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! > > > > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 12:47 PM, > spudboy100 via Everything List <everything- > [email protected]> wrote: > No > death penalties. I am not sure I agree, but > if this is the goal, then things need to be > done really differently. > > > Hum? Check this out: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Capital_punishment.PNG > > > The USA are alone in this. It's not > some uncertain utopia, it has been fully achieved > in most of the civilised world. > > > Telmo. > > > I > am not sure what you mean by "to seek my > goal". > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: LizR <[email protected]> > To: everything-list > <[email protected] > > > > Sent: Mon, Jun 2, > 2014 6:48 pm > Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! > > > > > On > 3 June 2014 10:28, spudboy100 > via Everything List > <[email protected] > > wrote: > > To seek your goal I am > guessing elements of society, > law, and technology, must > improve. > > I am not sure what you mean > by "to seek my goal". > > > > For many, nothing is broken, or > they have an interest in > things continuing as they are. > We'd have to get into problem > soving mode to do all that. The > world does not seem to be in a > problem solving mood. > > This > is of course true, "business > as usual" is nideed in the > process of destroying the > world. Not sure what it has to > do with the previous topic but > FWIW I agree. > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you > are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and > stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to > [email protected] > . > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > . > For more options, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/optout > . > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you > are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and > stop receiving emails from it, send an email > to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > . > For more options, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/optout > . > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving > emails from it, send an email to > [email protected] > . > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. 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