On 19 Sep 2014, at 04:53, Russell Standish wrote:
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 06:09:56PM -0700, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/18/2014 5:46 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
Consciousness has a state (which we call the
observer moment). If that state differs, then the state of the
supervened must also differ.
Thus consciousness cannot supervene on the UD* as it doesn't change
for a change of state of consciousness.
This seems to me to arise from equivocation about "consciousness".
You are treating it, as I experience it, as a temporal phenomenon -
a succession of thoughts, an inner narrative. That's the
consciousness I'd like to be able to program/engineer/understand.
But Bruno make's consciousness a potentiality of an axiomatic
system, for which he seems almost everything alive as a model (in
the mathematical sense), anything that could instantiate an
"if-then" or a "controlled-controlled-not". And he says that
salvia makes him think consciousness need not be temporal - which
might be like whiskey sometimes makes me think the ground sways.
Even if considered as a block atemporal phenomenon, it is still a
succession of states that supevene on a sequence of states of the
supervened on. To consider it as something else evacuates the concept
of consiousness, which must be about seeing something, not everything.
I have no problem in assuming that a sequence of conscious states may
supervene on a program (running or not), and that a different program
running through the same sequence of states (eg the replay of a
recording) may well not correspond to a conscious state.
But the UD, whilst running every program, is not passing through the
sequence of states in the same order as the original program.
But it does not change the order of the states of the computation that
it emulates. So we are just in the case of the 3P-dealys that the
first person will remain unaware of. There is still sense to say that
consciousness supervenes on the computation run by the UD, even if the
UD gently interrupt so as to run all programs, and each one in their
normal computational order, with all the relevant causal relation to
emulate the brain(s) at their correct level.
The UD itself might have that raw consciousness, or not. It is not
truly universal, extensionnally, and is universal in some intensional
sense, as it enumerates all the true sigma_1 sentences.
And as I point
out, a different conscious experience will not result in a change to
the UD calculation. To state that conscious still supervenes on the UD
does violence to the definition of supervenience we are using.
Yes, we have to be cautious, the sense is different in the mudane use
locally, and in the 3-1 outside pictures, where we take into account
our infinitely many doppelganger, and somehow have to attribiute our
consciousness to the clouds of state (3p observer moment) in arithmetic.
From Bruno's viewpoint the UD* just IS and Alice's different
thoughts as different times are just computations of those thoughts
which are correlated with computations of those times. That may
resolve the atemporal UD vs the temporal experience,
OK.
but it still
doesn't explain consciousness.
OK. For that you need the Theaetetus, + the modal logic of self-
references. It gives the arithmetical ([]p, []p & <>p), and the non
arithmetical ([]p & p, []p & <>p & p) phenomenologies.
It doesn't explain what computations
of Alice's are constitute her consciousness as opposed to her
subconsciousness or her brain functions or other stuff going on. It
is not an answer to say, well maybe everything in conscious.
I think that the cerebral stem + the cortex plays a key role, from the
reading of Hobson theory of mind. I say more on this in "conscience et
mécanisme", where I explained also why the Gödelian-Löbian Theatetus
"[]p & p" saves machines and humans from Malcolm argument that machine
can't think, and dream does not exist.
Consciousness is a semantical fixed point which machine get when
observing themselves, which they all do when having to survive in (a)
rich and complex environment(s).
Bruno
Exactly.
--
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Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
Latest project: The Amoeba's Secret
(http://www.hpcoders.com.au/AmoebasSecret.html)
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