On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au>
wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 04:57:20PM +0200, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
> > 2014-09-23 16:20 GMT+02:00 John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > >
> > > And this is a example of why I'm so certain that regardless of what you
> > > say "comp" is NOT just a abbreviation for computationalism.
> > > Computationalism says that consciousness is what matter does when it is
> > > organized in certain ways
> > >
> >
> > No, that's not computationalism... that's functionalism. Computationalism
> > involve computations... Consciousness could come from matter organized
> in
> > certain ways without being the result of a computation. So no,
> > computationalism is not "consciousness is what matter does when it is
> > organized in certain ways".
> >
> > Quentin
> >
>
> If I might comment: this is usually called materialism, and it is
> basically the idea that consciousness supervenes on matter.
>
> There is a more extreme version of materialism called physicalism,
> which essentially states that consciousness is nothing more than an
> epiphenomenon, that physical processes and relationships suffice to
> fully and completely explain everything. Physicalism sometimes goes by
> the name of eliminative materialism. And IIUC, physicalism is what
> Bruno shows is incompatible with COMP, materialism as I use it here is
> perfectly compatible.
>
Which I don't see. In both cases it would appear that one needs to keep
matter primitive, which comp along UDA and machine interview lines does
not, gradually letting go of it in steps 6,7,8.
I don't see why with comp specified we'd need some primitive matter, which
you appear to assume ("matter organized certain ways... consciousness
supervenes" )nor do I see convincing attempt of wrestling with "matter is
any snot I need it to be for argument's sake".
Where I agree with you is that the subject is a mess; where I perhaps
disagree is that I'm not sure you're part of the cleanup crew, especially
with the vague matter you appear to be shlepping around. Could you clarify
this? PGC
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