On 16 March 2015 at 06:49, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 15, 2015  Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote:
>
> > Organisms apply pressure on surfaces, even if they are dead. This is
>> just a property of chunks of solid matter. Evolution did not create this
>> behaviour
>
>
> I disagree. Evolution didn't select for that behavior but it did cause it,
> without Evolution no cadaver would exist and so there would be no pressure
> at that spot.
>
>  > The question is simple: why can't organisms generated by evolutionary
>> processes possess properties that are not the result of evolutionary
>> pressure?
>>
>
> All the properties that an animal has are the result of evolutionary
> pressure although sometimes it's indirect, the property may not confer a
> reproductive advantage and it might even be invisible to Evolution but
> Evolution could still produce it if it's the product of some other property
> that does have an evolutionary advantage.  Not every aspect of a building
> is the result of a decision by an architect, some features are just the
> byproduct of other decisions; if he wants to put a arch in a rectangular
> enclosure he's going to get a spandrel whether he wants it or not. It's the
> same with evolutionary spandrels, if intelligence confers an Evolutionary
> advantage it will be selected for and its byproduct, consciousness, will
> come along for the ride even if it has no Evolutionary advantage
> whatsoever.
>

So, consciousness - evolutionary advantage or spandrell?

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