On 18 Mar 2015, at 17:38, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 , Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> Intelligence is not a question of behavior.
If so then you have no reason to believe that Einstein was
intelligent and you have no reason to believe that a rock is not,
and thus "intelligence" joins "God" as being words that convey
absolutely no information in your new reformulation of the English
language. And "Christianity" and "Atheism" are redundant as they
both mean the same thing because one is just a minor offshoot of the
other, although I've forgotten which is a offshoot of which.
Forgotten? What you say above is handled easily with the definition
and theory I did provide. You need to read the posts before saying
that you forget what they said.
Intelligence can been defined by the number of stupidities asserted
and repeated. So yes, Einstein is not so much stupid, and pebbles are
intelligent. No problem with this. This followed from the definition I
gave, adding some grain of salt for not embarrassing you with jargon
and acronyms.
> Competence is an ability to solve problem.
Like the problem of figuring out how the world works? Somehow I got
the strange wacky idea that intelligence means doing intelligent
stuff,
Not really. Intelligence is not definable, like God, or consciousness.
You can approximate it by saying what it is not, and mainly
intelligence is the attribute of those who does not say stupidities. I
use the term in the sense of Bohm and Krishnamurti, which is closer to
wiseness, and a long way from competence.
but the trouble with that definition is that then you'd have to say
that computers were intelligent and we can't have that.
You don't read my post. I said the exact contrary/ All universal
machine, when non-programmed are maximally intelligent. Stupidity is
when you install windows (to remind you the joke I made at that
occasion). Intelligence is a bit like negentropy: it is decreasing
with time. Baby are maximally intelligent.
To be sure, intelligence is quite different with negentropy (it is
only a weak analogy).
So let's invent a new word (like competence) that applies only when
a machine does intelligent stuff. Do you think we should also invent
a new word that only applies when a black man does intelligent stuff?
> That can be tested, notably with exams and things like that.
And things like winning the Nobel Prize in physics.
Stupid (unwise) people got the Nobel Prize in physics, like some nazi,
for example. No, a prize, nor a grade measure intelligence. But it can
measure works, perseverance, competence, and other qualities.
Intelligence is simply not measurable. It is qualitative, close to
wiseness and conscience/consciousness. It is almost the natural state
of mind of Löbian machine, before they get wounded by life. Stupidity
is a form of neurosis. It leads to obsession, and the belief in self-
superiority on qualitative non communicable things.
Who needs "intelligence" (whatever the hell that word is supposed to
mean in your reformulation of English) if you're competent?
Who need the number 17?
But if you want a role for intelligence: the role is in avoiding
repeating the same stupidity too long, by making you able to say: I
was wrong. Intelligence is a form of courage. But you don't need it.
All Löbian machine are intelligent at the start. You need intelligence
at the start to become stupid later, actually.
> Intelligence is more an abstract ability to learn
I said it before I'll say it again, Watson could have never won on
Jeopardy if he couldn't learn.
Are you sure. The game of Lady (in french, don't know the name in
english) was very quickly won by machines, without learning. I think I
remember that Watson was not that bright. It uses gigantic database,
and powerful computing and pattern matching algorithm. You may be
right. Tell me which learning algorithm it was using, please.
Personally, I am not sure Watson is intelligent except for not saying
a lot of stupidity, like a pebble. In that sense, yes, Watson is not
stupid.
Bruno, if we were having this discussion in 1859 long before
computers were invented would you be insisting on making this silly
distinction between intelligence and competence? Of course not.
The difference is akin to the difference between a force and a
potential. Intelligence helps to develop competence, and to change of
competence. Competence itself can have a negative feedback on
intelligence, if only because people confuse competence and
intelligence.
"Silly" is an insult, and not an argument.
> or a sort of courage making some person able to change its mind,
to develop new taste, etc.
Dictators have far far more of that ability than you or I do or that
any scientists has, so was Hitler more intelligent than you or me or
Einstein?
If you believe that killing all people a bit different than you is an
act of courage, then I am not sure we are discussing on the same
thing. Killing, or insulting those who are different is more akin to
cowardness than courage to me. Intelligence-wiseness prefers to dialog
around a table, and listen to the others, than using insults or
bullets, or gas. Intelligence is attracted by the difference, not
repulsed by it.
Also, what you did is an equivocation. I was alluding to the courage
of recognizing our own mistake. never heard Hitler making such
acknowledgement.
Bruno
John K Clark
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