On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > The Helsinki guy now that he will survive, > Only if there is a person or if there are persons who remember being the Helsinki guy. > > > and that he cannot have the simultaneous first person experience > That's right Bruno, keep sweeping those foggy thoughts and fractured logic under the "he" colored personal pronoun rug. >> > >> There is no such thing as *THE* first person experience, there is only A >> first person experience. > > > > > "The" refers to that experience of seeing only one city > > and not the other > Two people not one have the experience of seeing only one city and not the other. So which ONE is "THE"? Bruno, to be meaningful language in a world that has personal pronoun duplicating machines just can't be used in the same way its used in our world that doesn't have such devices. >> >> Both Moscow AND Washington >> are accessible >> because there are people in BOTH Washington and Moscow who remember being >> the Helsinki Man and neither city is >> more >> favored because both memories are equally vivid. > > > > > Excellent. Both Washington AND Moscow are accessible equally. > Equally accessible to the Helsinki man yes, the probability of the Helsinki man seeing Moscow is 100% and the probability of the Helsinki man seeing Washington is 100%. > > > That is why P = 1/2 is the most plausible candidate in this situation. > John Clark will say if P=1/2 is correct or not as soon as Bruno Marchal explains exactly what P is supposed to be a probability of. Until then is is neither correct nor incorrect, it's just gibberish > > Refutation: he knows perfectly well that after pushing the button, he will > feel to be in either Moscow, or Washington, and never in both cities > "He" just walked into a "he" duplicating machine so there is absolutely no contradiction between: 1) He will see either Moscow, or Washington and never in both cities 2) John Clark (aka The Helsinki Man) will see both Moscow AND Washington. > > You forget again to put yourself at the place of both copies > Are you sure you really want me to do that? If so I'd have to conclude that I will see both cities at the same time. > > > No observer at all will have the 1p experience > > There is no such thing as "THE 1p" in a world with 1p duplicating machines. > > > of seeing both cities. > The Helsinki Man will see both cities. > > > The duplicating machine cannot introduce a telepathic link which would be > mandatory for having an experience of both cities at once, > On no, now we're back with the idiotic telepathy crap! > > indeed the probability that JKC see city X is 100%, from the 3-1 view. But > from this it does not follow that all copies will see both cities. > All the copies don't need to see both cities for JKC to see both cities if JKC means the person who remembers being in Helsinki. And what else on earth could JKC mean? > > > You forget to consult the diary of both copies, who both testify that they > both see only one city. > I haven't forgotten that, but you seem to have forgotten that 1+1 =2 > > You don't refute step 3, you just ignore it. > I've long long ago forgotten what step 3 is, but I do try to ignore gibberish. > > What can the Helsinki guy write in his personal diary that the guy in > Helsinki expect to live. > The diary says "I expect that after I walk into the I duplicating machine I, that is to say the person who remember writing these words, will see Washington and at the same time I, that is to say the person who remember writing these word s , will see Moscow". When we check later when its all over everybody involved agrees the prediction turned out to be correct because everybody involved knows that thanks to the person duplicating machine there is more than one person who remembers writing those words. > > When you say "John Clark will see 2 cities", you mean, taken together > Obviously, 2 beings have an equal right to call themselves John Clark and a equal right to call themselves the Helsinki man. "What one and only one city will you end up seeing after you step into the you duplicating machine?" is not question, it's just a string of words with a question mark at the end. If I'm wrong and it really is a question then answer it, after it was all over what one and only one city did "you" end up seeing? Was it Washington or Moscow? > > > You don't seem to try to refute an argument. > Because it's not a good argument, it's not even a bad argument, it's personal pronoun laden gibberish. We're talking about a world with personal pronoun duplicating machines in it and in such a world personal pronouns can not be used in the same way as they are in a world like ours which hasn't invented personal pronoun duplicating machines yet. So stop talking about "he" or "you" or "I" or "me" or "THE 1p"; those words don't mean anything anymore. > > > You seem to change the question so as to avoid the answer > I change the gibberish to see if I can find a real question lurking in there someplace, I haven't had a lot of luck > > > To sum up: confusion between the 3p and the 1p, again. > And the confusion will never end because in a world with personal pronoun duplicating machines in it there is no such thing as "THE 1p". Confusion is the only intelligent response to gibberish. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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