On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 6:15:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 11/1/2018 4:02 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 4:02:56 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 11/1/2018 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> *> infinite time Turing machines are more powerful than ordinary Turing >>>> machines* >>> >>> >>> That is true, it is also true that if dragons existed they would be >>> dangerous and if I had some cream I could have strawberries and cream, if I >>> had some strawberries. >>> >>> *> How "real" you think this is depends on whether you are a Platonist >>>> or a fictionalist.* >>>> >>> >>> No, it depends on if you think logical contradictions can exist, if they >>> can then there is no point in reading any mathematical proof and logic is >>> no longer a useful tool for anything. >>> >>> John K Clark >>> >>> >>>> >> Of course logics are fiction too. (They're just languages after all.) >> >> >> OK. Sentences written down are physical and not fictions. But can they >> be contradictory? How does "This page is red." contradict "This page is >> blue." unless they have some meaning as propositions. But this must be a >> relation between a proposition (an abstract thing) and a fact (the color of >> this page). >> >> Brent >> > > > > > Sentences, like this one, are physical *only* in the sense that they are > (in this case) made up of electronic bits displayed on a screen (as you are > looking at right now, maybe on a laptop or smartphone) - or they could be > made up of ink strokes on paper, etc. > > > One can't read anything more into them physically that that. What one > reads out of them (a person looking at this sentence, or a computer > scanning one) is a difference matter. > > There are no abstractions in an immaterial sense. > > > But there are abstractions in the sense that the same proposition is > instantiated in different substrates. So the contradiction can be between > different instances, e.g. a spoken sentence can contradict a written one. > > Brent >
"the same proposition is instantiated in different substrates" Those are in reality different propositions (sentences) materially because they are made up of different particles in difference locations. There is no "proposition" existing in a Platonic realm that appears here on Earth in different "fleshes". We group all these material proposition particulars together, but only pragmatically, and call this grouping "a proposition". - pt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
