I think that is right. But when you consider some simplified cases,
e.g. a computation written out on paper (or Bruno's movie graph) it
becomes apparent that consciousness must ultimately refer to other
things. Much is made of "self-awareness" but this is usually just
having an internal model of one's body, or social standing or some other
model of the self. It is not consciousness of consciousness...that is
only a temporal reflection: "I was conscious just now." In general
terms we could say consciousness is awareness of the evironment, where
that includes one's body. Damasio identifies emotions as awareness of
the bodies state. The point is that the stuff of which we are aware and
which we find agreement with other people's awareness is what we infer
to be the physical world. It might be possible to be conscious in some
sense without a physical world, but it would be qualitatively different.
Brent
On 5/3/2019 6:27 AM, Terren Suydam wrote:
One way to get around this is to hold that consciousness is associated
with the way information is processed. This is substrate independent -
the fact that a brain is physical is beside the point. You could
implement a brain in software, and insofar as the same kinds of
information processing occur, it would be conscious in the same kind
of way.
I find this idea compelling because it makes the link between brains
and consciousness without requiring matter, and provides a framework
for understanding consciousnesses of other kinds of machines. All
that's required is to assume there is something it is like for
computation to occur.
Terren
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 2:26 AM <cloudver...@gmail.com
<mailto:cloudver...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 8:03:52 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 5/2/2019 4:55 PM, cloud...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 5:37:26 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 5/2/2019 11:39 AM, cloud...@gmail.com wrote:
Apparently *matter* is not "reducible" to just the
physics a couple of particles.
Then you're not a materialist. You think there is matter
plus something else, that everyone calls "mind", but
you're going to call it "matter" and add it to everyone
else's list of matter so you can still call yourself a
materialist.
Brent
But everything reducing to the physics of particles is
thought of as *physicalism* (not materialism):
*Physicalism and materialism*
Reductive physicalism
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductive_physicalism>...is
normally assumed to be incompatible with panpsychism.
Materialism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism>, if
held to be distinct from physicalism, is compatible with
panpsychism insofar as mental properties
What mental properties? intention? reflection? remembering?
That's what I mean by saying attributing "experience" to
matter is an unprincipled half-measure.
Brent
Brains are matter, just as livers, legs, trees, tables, rocks,
comets, planets, stars, cockroaches, galaxies, bacteria .. are
matter.
Brains produce intentions, reflections, remembrances, ... .
So (at least some) matter of the cosmos has psychical (mental)
properties.
The body+mind idea, the idea that mind is something separate from
body, is perhaps the worst idea ever invented.
@philipthrift
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