> On 9 May 2019, at 13:03, Philip Thrift <cloudver...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 5:34:29 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 3 May 2019, at 16:10, cloud...@gmail.com <javascript:> wrote: >> >> >> >> The general response here is that there has never existed a program that has >> executed outside a computer. And computers are made of matter. > > That is false. Programs have been discovered in arithmetic, like prime > numbers. Computations are number relation (the sigma_1 one). > > “ > > Who discovered arithmetic and where is it?
Arithmetic is known by human before they developed written language, and the first proof of sophisticated result, are 5000 years old, with the tablets showing those ancient people got all Pythagorean triples. > > I get the idea that Arthur Conan Doyle "discovered" Sherlock Holmes, and he > "is" in books and people's brains (imaginations). Arithmetic has been found independently by Chinese, Indian, europeans, etc. Everyone agree on all arithmetical proposition, without any exception. It is used all the time, everyday, and your laptop would cease functioning if only one arithmetical proposition would be false. Sherlock Holmes is a creation of the mind by Doyle. You can meet human approximating him, but even if they look very similar, it is not Sherlock Holmes, by definition. > > But arithmetic actually has no more reality than that, outside of its > operations in brains and man-made things. One can say DNA or other natural > things is "doing" arithmetic and so forth. That kind of thing. > > But where is this thing you call arithmetic? Numbers, and arithmetical relation are out of the category of things to which “where” applies, unless you define “where” in some arithmetical sense, like when we say that 10^100 is far from 0, but of course, this is not used in the physical sense. On the contrary, the physical “whereness” is derived from mechanism and arithmetic. The theory of everything is explicitly given by classical logic + 1) 0 ≠ s(x) 2) x ≠ y -> s(x) ≠ s(y) 3) x ≠ 0 -> Ey(x = s(y)) 4) x+0 = x 5) x+s(y) = s(x+y) 6) x*0=0 7) x*s(y)=(x*y)+x If you eliminate just one axiom from that theory, you get very interesting theories, but none is Turing complete. We can use anything Turing equivalent. I have proven recently and explicitly on this list that the following theory is Turing complete: 1) If A = B and A = C, then B = C 2) If A = B then AC = BC 3) If A = B then CA = CB 4) KAB = A 5) SABC = AC(BC) Those two theories lead to the same machine theology, and thus the same physics, and up to now, it fits with Nature, and explains entirely what is consciousness and where it comes from. Bruno > > @philipthrift > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/03935abe-2895-421d-94e0-3bcdbfc035bd%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/03935abe-2895-421d-94e0-3bcdbfc035bd%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/B2C77FC1-7365-41DF-A777-2691A6910BDC%40ulb.ac.be. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
