> On 12 Oct 2020, at 12:15, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I would say in general with a machine you can see the seems, bolts and rivets > while a biological system you don’t.
In both case we see particles and fields obeying computable laws, when we look at a digital machine implemented in some subset of the physical laws. The first person associated with the machine cannot do. She does not know which computations run it, among the infinities of differentiating computations which run her in Arithmetic (with a big “A”, Arithmetic refers to the Model, that is the truth or semantic, not a theory of Arithmetic, like RA or PA). > You can turn off a machine, but a biological system does not turn back on. OK. But that is contingent. In principle, perhaps through cryongenisation, if your body remains stable enough, we might turn you back on. > Biological systems are spontaneous and will act accordingly. That is what the Universal machine do. They are only partially computable. I am not sure what you mean by “spontaneous” to be sure. > A computer with no input just sits there. There are many programs with no inputs which can do quite varied things, like executing a dreaming program. It looks it just sit there, but like a patient in a coma, he might be conscious (or might be associated to a conscious individual) without us able to notice it. > While there are clearly Turning machine or Church-Turing aspects of how > brains or neural systems work, there are also huge departures. Perhaps, but without any evidence for this, let us continue to search it. What you are doing here, is to be that there is a difference between the physics inferred from observation and the physics mathematical subbranch of machine self-rerference. Doing theology rationally and empirically consists in doing those experience, and although Newton physics contradicts Mechanism, up to now the quantum facts confirms it, even strikingly if we forget about the wave collapse reduction. Fundamental science is just philosophy/theology done with the scientific attitude and method. Bruno > > LC > > On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 9:42:03 AM UTC-5 telmo wrote: > Hi Lawrence, > > Am So, 11. Okt 2020, um 14:21, schrieb Lawrence Crowell: >> On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 8:06:10 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com >> <applewebdata://B6369EF7-D5C0-4921-87F8-31B44150662F> wrote: >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com <>> via >> Everything List wrote: >> >> >> [Me] Nations? People? You're showing a remarkable lack of imagination and >> >> making a lot of unwarranted assumptions. A 100 years from now (maybe less >> >> than 50) nation states will certainly no longer exist and even something >> >> that you are I would recognize as a biological human being probably >> >> won't. >> >> > The only way I see that is if we snuff ourselves out, which is possible. >> >> >> I'm not talking about humans snuffing themselves out although I admit that's >> possible, I'm talking about humans replacing parts of themselves until there >> is no longer anything very human about them. Some signals in the brain move >> as slowly as .01 meters per second, the slow diffusion of hormones for >> example, but even the very fastest signals in the brain move at only 100 >> meters per second and light moves at 300,000,000 meters per second; and in a >> computer made with Nanotechnology the distances the signal must travel will >> be far shorter because the components will be much smaller. And that's >> without even considering Quantum Computers. There is just no way biology can >> compete with that. >> >> >> > Nation states will otherwise probably exist, >> >> Their life expectancy depends on the evolution of Memes not the evolution of >> genes as in Darwinian evolution, but Memes evolve astronomically faster than >> genes. >> >> > Human also will exist, >> >> Information processing Turing Machines that remember once being human will >> still exist a century from now, but if you or I were to see one we wouldn't >> say they looked or acted like a human. >> >> John K Clark >> >> I have serious doubts about a lot of these hyper-tech ideas that border on >> science fiction. I really question ideas of minds being downloaded into >> cybers, or the matryoshka ideas and so forth. These ideas sort of give me a >> sense of why there were so many of those 1950 science fiction and horror >> films about mad doctors or scientists hell bent on bizarre quests. I think >> for the average person these sorts of ideas probably sound little different. >> One has to remember that while we can pursue a better understanding of the >> universe, few people want their humanity taken away or to become robots. > > In your understanding of reality, what is the difference between a human and > a robot*? > > Cheers, > Telmo > > * Let us assume sci-fi level stuff here > > >> For some practical reasons I also think there are limits on these things. >> >> LC >> >> > >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com >> <applewebdata://B6369EF7-D5C0-4921-87F8-31B44150662F>. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/686d191f-8d20-40ac-b583-6523b326fd5bn%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/686d191f-8d20-40ac-b583-6523b326fd5bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2420f2a1-aa82-4eb2-b143-76175bef8a3fn%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2420f2a1-aa82-4eb2-b143-76175bef8a3fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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