> On 11 Mar 2021, at 20:20, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote: > > > > Am Do, 11. Mär 2021, um 18:05, schrieb John Clark: >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 8:09 AM Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com >> <mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> > So if 2+2=4, then thoughts exist. >> >> But if I think 2+2 = 5 then thoughts still exist, > > Which goes to show that just by adding the two words "I think" to an > interesting statement you can turn it into an uninteresting statement. > >> but without the laws of physics a Turing machine can't exist, > > The laws of physics are a human construct. Mathematically different sets of > laws can fit the same experimental results and produce the same results. I > guess what you actually mean is: "without physics a Turing machine can't > exist". If you mean a physical instance of the machine, then you are > trivially correct. Of course, Turing's point was not to provide instructions > on how to construct a very inefficient computational device. His point was to > formalize the very idea of computation. > > So, if your claim is actually "without physics computation cannot exist", > then you are just betting on one brute fact to build reality upon instead of > another. Maybe you are correct, but I don't know if you are and neither do > you.
Since Aristotle, or perhaps since the Church imposed the theology of Aristotle (the belief in some primary matter or physical universe), a lot of people confuse the many evidences that we have for the existence of a physical reality with evidences that the physical reality would be the fundamental Reality. Of course, Aristotle reacted to Plato, who was aware that there were no evidence for a physical reality which would be primary, and actually that there are some evidences that the fundamental reality is not physical, but rather number theoretical or even musical (like with Pythagorus), or “ideal”, like with his own “world of ideas” (the Noùs). The existence of a primary physical universe is an hypothesis absent from any physical theoiries. It is in fact a very strong metaphysical commitment. Now, even if there was such a primary universe, it would remain true that all computations are run in a tiny part of the arithmetical reality, like it would remain true that there is no biggest prime number. Those existence are not a priori related, despite eventually Digital Mechanism has to, and does, relate them through machine’s canonical psychology/theology/metaphysics. Bruno > > Telmo > >> and without a Turing Machines thoughts, even incorrect thoughts produced by >> faulty programming, can't exist. >> >> John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis >> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0Qcuj2Bzk1GpCbsSg6u_xQfRmH6CjjW6VRt8kt7Opwiw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0Qcuj2Bzk1GpCbsSg6u_xQfRmH6CjjW6VRt8kt7Opwiw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/48e91e10-4af8-4f70-b199-01c7e7d4879b%40www.fastmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/48e91e10-4af8-4f70-b199-01c7e7d4879b%40www.fastmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/94390C8D-3392-4DF0-AE89-940266D1BFC3%40ulb.ac.be.
