On 7/7/2024 12:13 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 1:58 PM Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
/>>> // I think such foresight is a necessary component of
intelligence, not a "byproduct"./
>>I agree, I can detect the existence of foresight in others and
so can natural selection, and that's why we have it. It aids
in getting our genes transferred into the next generation. But
I was talking about consciousness not foresight, and
regardless of how important we personally think consciousness
is, from evolution's point of view it's utterly useless, and
yet we have it, or at least I have it.
/> you don't seem to think zombies are logically possible,/
Zombies are possible, it's philosophical zombies, a.k.a. smart
zombies, that are impossible because it's a brute fact that
consciousness is the way data behaves when it is being processed
intelligently, or at least that's what I think. Unless you believe
that all iterated sequences of "why" or "how" questions go on forever
then you must believe that brute facts exist; and I can't think of a
better candidate for one than consciousness.
/> so then epiphenomenalism is false/
According to the InternetEncyclopedia of Philosophy "/Epiphenomenalism
is a position in the philosophy of mind according to which mental
states or events are caused by physical states or events in the brain
but do not themselves cause anything/".If that is the definition then
I believe in Epiphenomenalism.
/> As you said previously, if consciousness had no effects, there
would be no reason for it to evolve in the first place./
What I said in my last postwas "It must be because consciousness is
the byproduct of something else that is not useless, there are no
other possibilities".
/> There is another possibility: consciousness is not useless./
If consciousness is not useless from Evolution's point of view then it
must produce "something" that natural selection can see, and if
natural selection can see that certain "something" then so can you or
me. So the Turing Test is not just a good test for intelligence it's
also a good test for consciousness. The only trouble is, what is that
"something"?
*Foresight.
Brent*
Presumably whatever it is that "something" must be related to mind in
some way, but If it is not intelligent activity then what the hell is
it"?
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
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