But physics isn't computable, it includes quantum mechanics which
introduces randomness.
Brent
On 9/12/2024 3:10 PM, Liz R wrote:
On the subject of whether consciousness is computation (or is it
"supervenes on computation" or something? Anyway...) - if it turns out
that physics is computable, that undercuts that question, in that
assuming consciousness is the product of physics, it must also be. the
product of computation (possibly at a level far below that of frain cells)
On Tuesday 10 September 2024 at 06:14:22 UTC+12 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 9/9/2024 5:25 AM, John Clark wrote:
*No. Mathematics can describe computation, but it is not
computation. That’s why the semiconductor industry exists,
software alone is not sufficient, in fact, software alone can’t
do anything. If you actually want to DO something, if you want
something to change over an interval of time, then matter is
required. That's why the information in a book can't do anything
if it's just sitting on a shelf, that information can only cause
something to change if a person or, as we've seen very recently,
an AI, reads it. And both the person and the AI are made of
atoms. And atoms are physical. *
*Computation involves the manipulation of information, and the
minimum amount of energy needed to perform a calculation is
greater than zero. Also, the amount of information that you can
stuff into a volume of space is finite, if there is too much
information then the volume turns into a Black Hole where
the information, if it still even exists, is inaccessible. So
information is physical and computation is a physical process.*
*I generally agree with John, but I would point out that
computation is a physical process that realizes a mathematical
process. Sure it's more complicated because it depends on the
physics, but that is incidental to the computation. So it's kind
of the reverse of using mathematics to describe something. In a
computational process it's the mathematics that's essential.
That, in itself doesn't answer the question of whether
consciousness is computation, but nerves are physiological
structures whose essential function is transmitting information.
So I would say consciousness originates with the evolution of
nerves and eventually the central nervous system. I see
consciousness has having several levels from simple detecting and
reacting to immediate surroundings, to internal models of self
versus others, to planning and projection, to language and
abstraction. So conscious is implicitly information processing,
but not all of it is what humans think of as being conscious,
having an inner narrative.
Brent*
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/972eac45-c1a3-4007-833e-04526691615dn%40googlegroups.com
<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/972eac45-c1a3-4007-833e-04526691615dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f88f7fe4-a3e8-474e-8bd2-2ee64ee91ef9%40gmail.com.
