On 9/12/2024 8:23 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 07:48:36PM -0700, Liz R wrote:
On Friday 13 September 2024 at 12:20:01 UTC+12 Russell Standish wrote:
One of the consequences of the universal dovetailer argument is that
if conciousness is computational, then physics is not.
That's interesting. I don't see how that could happen, would you mind
elaborating? (I've read "The Amoeba's Secret" thanks to you but I can't
remember this part).
Physics, as in what is observed - phenomenology. The universal
dovetailer will run all computations, so at each step where there is a
difference of computation,
A difference between what and what? In one thread and another...that
must happen at almost every step. Each thread is deterministic so why
would it branch?
Brent
all branches are taken. To a conscious
entitity, the result will appear as an intrinsic random process -
there is no meaningful statement to say which ameoba is the original
one, they all are.
The only get out I can think of is if the "foundational reality"
(ontological layer) is sufficiently poor that it is incapable of
running a universal dovetailer. But in that case, it would show up in
observed physics, ie it would be impossible to imlement a universal
dovetailer in our reality - or any sort of universal Turing machine or
computer.
I don't think this consequence is written in Amoeba's Secret, as it
came out during discussions on this list which postdated Le secret de
l'amibe. It might be in my book, but I don't recall now :).
Intrinsic
randomness arises from the first person view of the operation of the
dovetailer.
I can see that, at least, I think it's similar to the idea of apparent
randomness in many-worlds?
Yes.
Perhaps what you're thinking of is oracles solving computationally
impossible problems, such as delivering the successive digits of the
Chaitin probablility Ω.
A corrolary of this is that a computational physics à la Konrad Zuse's
Rechnender Raum would rule out computationalism, and consequently
physical supervenience.
I can see how that follows from the first paragraph, but as mentioned I can't
think how computational consciousness leads to non-computational physics (or
exactly what that means).
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
everything-list/bb7aa002-e50c-4239-8cef-77f0e3feab8cn%40googlegroups.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/053c388c-0131-497d-8ddb-01bcb27c5676%40gmail.com.
