And what would you fancy as an "underlying physicality"?
Brent
On 11/8/2024 1:14 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
The map. Ultimately we're seeking the physicality underlying the
correlations. AG
On Friday, November 8, 2024 at 1:49:48 AM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 11/7/2024 8:17 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 7:12:02 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 11/7/2024 5:20 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 4:53:37 PM UTC-7 Brent
Meeker wrote:
On 11/7/2024 2:28 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 3:22:53 PM UTC-7 Brent
Meeker wrote:
On 11/6/2024 12:40 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 at 11:31:03 AM
UTC-7 John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 4:23 AM Alan Grayson
<[email protected]> wrote:
/> An effect between entangled pairs but
no information sent? Doesn't make sense. AG/
*It's weird but it does not produce a logical
contradiction. Suppose you and I have quantum
entangled coins, I stay on earth but you get
in your Spaceship and travel at nearly the
speed of light for a little over four years to
Alpha Centauri, then you slow down and start
flipping your coin and I do the same on Earth.
We both write down a record of all the heads
and tails we got and both of us conclude that
the sequences we got are perfectly random.
Then you get back in your spaceship and four
years later you're back home. And now that
you're back we compare our lists of "random"
coin flips and we find that the two sequences
are identical, we both got the same "random"
sequence.*
*That's very weird but neither of us noticed
anything was strange until you got back, and
that took over four years because Alpha
Centauriis four light years away. If we try to
use our coins discern a message by Morse code
with heads meaning a dot and tails meaning a
dash it won't work because your coin will only
come up the way you want it to 50% of the
time.You could of course force your coin to
come up heads or tails, but if you did that
you would destroy the quantum entanglement
because it is very delicate, and then you
would just have two ordinary unrelated coins. *
Two observers can't send information to each other
because neither knows what will come up in a coin
flip if the outcome is modeled quantum
mechanically, that is irreducibly random , but
each element of a pair of entangled particles can
send information to its partner, since if it
couldn't, they wouldn't be entangled. AG
First of all you need to realize that "entangled
particles" is just shorthand. Particles aren't
entangled. Some property of the particles is
entangled, e.g. spin or momentum or position. So
in Hilbert space, instead of there being two
different vector components for the spin of A and
the spin of B, there is only one vector for the
spin of both A and B. So Alice can measure it and
B can measure it. But neither can change or
control the measurement. It's random.
Brent
Yes, I am aware of that. Alice and Bob can't send
messages to each other. But does either of the
particles send anything to the other? That's the issue.
It's called an "effect". But an effect must have some
actual content, if it exists. AG
The "content" is they share a vector in Hilbert space.
Brent
Have you ever seen a vector in Hilbert space? AG
If the photons hitting your eye weren't a vector in Hilbert
space you wouldn't see anything.
Brent
Were people born before Hilbert blind? You're confusing the map
from the territory. AG
Are directions and amplitudes map or territory?
Brent
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