On 11/7/2024 8:17 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 7:12:02 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 11/7/2024 5:20 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 4:53:37 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 11/7/2024 2:28 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 3:22:53 PM UTC-7 Brent
Meeker wrote:
On 11/6/2024 12:40 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 at 11:31:03 AM UTC-7
John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 4:23 AM Alan Grayson
<[email protected]> wrote:
/> An effect between entangled pairs but no
information sent? Doesn't make sense. AG/
*It's weird but it does not produce a logical
contradiction. Suppose you and I have quantum
entangled coins, I stay on earth but you get in
your Spaceship and travel at nearly the speed of
light for a little over four years to Alpha
Centauri, then you slow down and start flipping
your coin and I do the same on Earth. We both write
down a record of all the heads and tails we got and
both of us conclude that the sequences we got are
perfectly random. Then you get back in your
spaceship and four years later you're back home.
And now that you're back we compare our lists of
"random" coin flips and we find that the two
sequences are identical, we both got the same
"random" sequence.*
*That's very weird but neither of us noticed
anything was strange until you got back, and that
took over four years because Alpha Centauriis four
light years away. If we try to use our coins
discern a message by Morse code with heads meaning
a dot and tails meaning a dash it won't work
because your coin will only come up the way you
want it to 50% of the time.You could of course
force your coin to come up heads or tails, but if
you did that you would destroy the quantum
entanglement because it is very delicate, and then
you would just have two ordinary unrelated coins. *
Two observers can't send information to each other
because neither knows what will come up in a coin flip
if the outcome is modeled quantum mechanically, that is
irreducibly random , but each element of a pair of
entangled particles can send information to its
partner, since if it couldn't, they wouldn't be
entangled. AG
First of all you need to realize that "entangled
particles" is just shorthand. Particles aren't
entangled. Some property of the particles is entangled,
e.g. spin or momentum or position. So in Hilbert space,
instead of there being two different vector components
for the spin of A and the spin of B, there is only one
vector for the spin of both A and B. So Alice can
measure it and B can measure it. But neither can change
or control the measurement. It's random.
Brent
Yes, I am aware of that. Alice and Bob can't send messages
to each other. But does either of the particles send
anything to the other? That's the issue. It's called an
"effect". But an effect must have some actual content, if it
exists. AG
The "content" is they share a vector in Hilbert space.
Brent
Have you ever seen a vector in Hilbert space? AG
If the photons hitting your eye weren't a vector in Hilbert space
you wouldn't see anything.
Brent
Were people born before Hilbert blind? You're confusing the map from
the territory. AG
Are directions and amplitudes map or territory?
Brent
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