> > > > Rory wrote: OK. Perfection aside, how about the thought, "It must be OK for this terrible suffering to BE, because it IS in this moment"? > > > > > > > > "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > That would be an utterly irrelevant thought for me. The > > > > > relevant thought would be, This terrible suffering should > > > > > not exist one moment longer. > > > > Rory wrote: > > > >Interesting! How does your bodymind feel when you hold > > > > that thought? > > > > > "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > Also irrelevant. > > RG: Well, it's entirely relevant to what *I* am speaking > > of, which is whether we're suffering or not: which depends > > on how our bodymind reacts to specific thoughts we are > > holding. What do *you* consider relevant?
JS: Whether I'm motivated to do something to relieve the > suffering I'm seeing, and how successful I am. * * * RG: OK; I hear that as you're saying you're primarily concerned with taking steps "out there" in the world to heal the suffering you're feeling "in here" in the bodymind. If that's what you're saying, then that is certainly a most commendable -- if ultimately impossible -- task. FWIW I do wish you luck, if that's what you are getting at, and hope that you *do* somehow achieve the impossible, and that you are indeed soon able to create the "outer" perfection in everything and everyone that will allow you finally to feel no-suffering "in here". > > > For me that would probably still be resistance > > > > to its existence in this moment, and would create tension, > > > > contraction, anger, etc., but YMMV. > > > > > > > > RG: And even, "it must be OK for me to feel awful about this > > > > > > terrible suffering, because I *do* in this moment"?... > > > > > > Would that be a lie also? > > > > > > > > > JS: Again, irrelevant. > > > > > > > > RG: Irrelevant to what? > > > > > > JS: To anything meaningful. > > > > RS: What is "anything meaningful"? I am only speaking at > > the moment of our resistance to what IS, to what is real > > for us in this moment, and how that resistance creates > > our suffering. > JS: As I already pointed out, there can't be any resistance > to what is real for us *in this moment*. The resistance > is to allowing it to continue into the *next* moments. * * * RG: Yes; as I suggested, that still looks to me like resistance, like a refusal to allow it to really BE. It certainly *is* resistance, if there is any stress, pain, tension, etc. in the bodymind when we think the thought, "this should not continue into the *next* moment." And I would suspect that quite often this *does* continue into the next moment; therefore we are actually thinking a Lie, and we would be more truthful -- more in alignment with what IS -- if we were to think in those instances, "it *should* continue into the next moment." But if you're not resisting, and if you're not suffering, then well and good! (And for that matter, either way, it is OK with me.) RG:> If you would like to change the subject to something more > > meaningful to you, please feel free to suggest another > > topic, and I'll be glad to chat with you about that, if I > > feel so moved... > JS: Oooh, touchy, touchy. Read that comment over in light of > what you've been prescribing. You're resisting the fact > that I don't find it relevant. > * * * RG: Actually, not; I meant exactly what I said. I'm simply trying to find out what you *do* consider relevant, and offering to converse with you on that instead, if I feel so moved. If you repeatedly say "irrelevant" to my efforts to convey what I am speaking of, I find that's a bit of a show-stopper; I respect that and I will happily move into other territory with you, if it feels like fun :-) > > > > RG: I see it as simply surrendering to what IS, simply because > > > > > > it IS. We don't have to understand it; we don't have to > > > > > > like it; we simply have to let it BE, in this moment. > > > > > > > > > JS: We don't have any choice "in this moment" but to let it > > > > > be, so that's also irrelevant. > > > > RG: Oh, OK, I see. But that's exactly it! I find that > > > > that's the key to my suffering. I find that I *am* subtly > > > > resisting what IS in this moment when I suffer. And when I > > > > uncover that subtle resistance, and try holding the > > > > opposite thought -- it *should* be in this moment -- it > > > > dissolves the samskara. > > > > > JS: Well, that's nice for you. It's irrelevant to me. > > RG: Meaning what, exactly? That you are not interested > > in how holding specific thoughts affects our bodymind? > JS: I don't find that holding the thought "it *should* be in > this moment" dissolves anything for me. I'm happy that it > does for you. Whatever floats your boat, as Barry might say. * * * RG: If you find that your bodymind feels exactly the same -- no heavier, no tenser, no angrier, etc. -- with both the thought "it should not be..." and the thought "it should be..." then I would say you are probably not resisting anything, and are probably not suffering :-) > > > > RG: Refusal to do so is what I am calling "the big Lie". As > > > > > > the AA people are wont to say, when we argue with with > > > > > > Reality, we only lose 100% of the time. > > > > > > > > > JS: I'm not sure they're talking about Reality, as opposed to > > > > > plain-vanilla, lower-case reality. > > > > > > > RG: That's the big joke! I find that reality *is* Reality, > > > > when we don't resist it! > > > > > JS: But that isn't what *AA* means by it, so that isn't what > > > AA is "wont to say." > > > > > * * * I am told they say, "When we argue with reality we > > lose, but only 100% of the time." This is my point. As to > > whether reality is Reality or not, that *is* as you might > > say, ultimately irrelevant! > JS: Irrelevant to you, not to me. RG: Personally, I find that if we start with utter non-resistance > > to whatever reality we happen to be telling ourselves, we > > certainly cease suffering, and by ceasing our suffering we > > also discover that reality IS Reality, or a perfectly OK wave > > of Us. YMMV, of course... > JS: MMDV. > RG: OK. Duly noted. Each to her own! :-)
