For the Orthodox, God's essence (ousia) is ineffable and unknowable. However, they consider the uncreated Divine Energies (energeia/activities) knowable because they are the means for created beings (you/me) to participate through grace in the life of God. Thus the saying: "God became human so that humans can become God." i.e. What God is by essence we can become through grace.
BTW - your '"death of the church" contention sounds like a story you made up to comfort yourself. Instead of that, you might try Woodford Reserve Distiller's Select Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, $24.99 for a 750 ml bottle. A true non-conceptual proof of God ... a 85-90% proof that is. Award winning and a better comfort too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra <no_reply@...> wrote: > > Believe me, empty bill, I have gone deep deep into this whole matter. You must forgive me the earnestness with which I assert this fact. > > However, I find Thomas Keating's reflections quite apposite. (I knew about Pennington's TM connection.) > > I admire the heroic intellect of Thomas Merton. I don't find his religious experiences (as he writes about them) to constitute any proof against my contention that true mystical experiences were rendered null and void after the death of the Church. > > But you can see, out of my search and discovery (and much pain) I have become in my own way quite the dogmatist. Nevertheless I have paid attention to your references, and will not entirely ignore them. > > The closest thing to a religious experience (in my opinion at least) is seeing that last performer on Wednesday night's first episode of The X Factor. That, and some of the choreographed dances on So You Think You Can Dance: these performances make life suddenly very real. And this is a good thing. But God letting human beings have the experience of what and who he is? I have the strongest conviction and intuitionbased upon comprehensive researchthis is impossible. For us at least. > > Either I am right or this is the case of ultra sour grapes. > > Thanks for the edifying remarks, emptybill. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@ wrote: > > > > The Roman Catholic lineage is not dead because it produced Thomas > > Merton. > > However, much of it remain catatonic ... a mere semblance of its former > > life. > > If you broaden your field you'll find amazing riches beyond mere > > thinking. > > > > One excellent place to start is The Mystical Theology of the Eastern > > Church > > by Vladimir Lossky. It presents much of the original view of the > > tradition before > > it was severed by the mutual anathemas of the 11th Century Hierarchs. > > > > Worth reading is Centering Prayer by Fr. Basil Pennington, who also > > learned TM. > > The works of Trappist Abbot Thomas Keating best explain its traditional > > basis. > > > > Here is a summary about the essence of contemplative prayer from Fr. > > Keating: > > > > Invitation to Love > > > > Keating first discusses what contemplative prayer is not. It is not a > > technique to achieve bliss, nor is it one of the charismatic gifts > > enumerated by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12. In particular, it is not the > > same thing as the gift of "resting in the Spirit." These gifts are given > > for the benefit of the local Christian community and are an invitation > > to the spiritual journey rather than evidence that the individual has > > spiritually "arrived". > > Contemplative prayer also is not a psychic or para-psychological > > phenomenon. Though these phenomena may indeed signal a transition from > > mental egoic to intuitive consciousness, this only means access to new > > energy, not freedom from the false self. > > > > The essence of contemplative prayer is not the experience of mystical > > phenomena, which, like the charismatic gifts, are probably also meant to > > encourage the Christian people in times of difficulty such as war, > > disaster, and persecution. > > > > "The essence of contemplative prayer is not the way of external or > > internal phenomena, but the way of pure faith. This is the narrow door > > that leads to life." Our experience, what we feel, is not the most > > important part. Like the two nuns whose stories Keating briefly retells, > > we may arrive at transforming union either with or without exuberant > > mystical experiences. > > > > St. John of the Cross said that contemplative prayer is a ray of > > darkness. The darkness of faith is the evidence of things not seen; and > > "the way of pure faith is to persevere in contemplative practice without > > worrying about where we are on the journey, and without comparing > > ourselves with others or judging others' gifts as better than ours." > > > > It is commitment to the journey and faithful practice rather than > > spiritual experiences that lead to the transforming union. Though we > > cannot perceive it through our natural senses, "the divine light of > > faith is totally available in the degree that we consent and surrender > > ourselves to its presence and action within us." > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > Looks like I've got some reading to do, emptybill. Thanks for the > > sources. > > > > > > Why can't everyone just agree with me: My theory is so damn reasonable > > and commonsensical. No? > > > > > > No, I knew I was in for it in posting that response to what, all > > things considered, *is* a beautiful prayer. (If I had seen in the > > mid-seventies, I would have memorized it right then and there.) > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Robin > > > > > > > > You theological knowledge appears quite restricted, as do your > > > > evaluations. > > > > > > > > > > > > Haven't you ever read St. Dionysius Areopagite? > > > > > > > > What about the Skemmata of Evagius? St. Maximus the Confessor? St. > > > > Gregory Palamas? St. Symeon the New Theologian? > > >
