I'll try the WRDSKSB Whiskey.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" <emptybill@...> wrote:
>
> For the Orthodox, God's essence (ousia) is ineffable and unknowable.
> However, they consider the uncreated Divine Energies
> (energeia/activities)
> knowable because they are the means for created beings (you/me) to
> participate
> through grace in the life of God.
> Thus the saying: "God became human so that humans can become God."
> i.e. What God is by essence we can become through grace.
>
> BTW - your '"death of the church" contention sounds like a story you
> made up to
> comfort yourself.
>
> Instead of that, you might try Woodford Reserve Distiller's Select
> Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, $24.99 for a 750 ml bottle. A true
> non-conceptual proof of God ...
> a 85-90% proof that is. Award winning and a better comfort too.
>
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Believe me, empty bill, I have gone deep deep into this whole matter.
> You must forgive me the earnestness with which I assert this fact.
> >
> > However, I find Thomas Keating's reflections quite apposite. (I knew
> about Pennington's TM connection.)
> >
> > I admire the heroic intellect of Thomas Merton. I don't find his
> religious experiences (as he writes about them) to constitute any proof
> against my contention that true mystical experiences were rendered null
> and void after the death of the Church.
> >
> > But you can see, out of my search and discovery (and much pain) I have
> become in my own way quite the dogmatist. Nevertheless I have paid
> attention to your references, and will not entirely ignore them.
> >
> > The closest thing to a religious experience (in my opinion at least)
> is seeing that last performer on Wednesday night's first episode of The
> X Factor. That, and some of the choreographed dances on So You Think You
> Can Dance: these performances make life suddenly very real. And this is
> a good thing. But God letting human beings have the experience of what
> and who he is? I have the strongest conviction and intuitionbased
> upon comprehensive researchthis is impossible. For us at least.
> >
> > Either I am right or this is the case of ultra sour grapes.
> >
> > Thanks for the edifying remarks, emptybill.
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@ wrote:
> > >
> > > The Roman Catholic lineage is not dead because it produced Thomas
> > > Merton.
> > > However, much of it remain catatonic ... a mere semblance of its
> former
> > > life.
> > > If you broaden your field you'll find amazing riches beyond mere
> > > thinking.
> > >
> > > One excellent place to start is The Mystical Theology of the Eastern
> > > Church
> > > by Vladimir Lossky. It presents much of the original view of the
> > > tradition before
> > > it was severed by the mutual anathemas of the 11th Century
> Hierarchs.
> > >
> > > Worth reading is Centering Prayer by Fr. Basil Pennington, who also
> > > learned TM.
> > > The works of Trappist Abbot Thomas Keating best explain its
> traditional
> > > basis.
> > >
> > > Here is a summary about the essence of contemplative prayer from Fr.
> > > Keating:
> > >
> > > Invitation to Love
> > >
> > > Keating first discusses what contemplative prayer is not. It is not
> a
> > > technique to achieve bliss, nor is it one of the charismatic gifts
> > > enumerated by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12. In particular, it is not the
> > > same thing as the gift of "resting in the Spirit." These gifts are
> given
> > > for the benefit of the local Christian community and are an
> invitation
> > > to the spiritual journey rather than evidence that the individual
> has
> > > spiritually "arrived".
> > > Contemplative prayer also is not a psychic or para-psychological
> > > phenomenon. Though these phenomena may indeed signal a transition
> from
> > > mental egoic to intuitive consciousness, this only means access to
> new
> > > energy, not freedom from the false self.
> > >
> > > The essence of contemplative prayer is not the experience of
> mystical
> > > phenomena, which, like the charismatic gifts, are probably also
> meant to
> > > encourage the Christian people in times of difficulty such as war,
> > > disaster, and persecution.
> > >
> > > "The essence of contemplative prayer is not the way of external or
> > > internal phenomena, but the way of pure faith. This is the narrow
> door
> > > that leads to life." Our experience, what we feel, is not the most
> > > important part. Like the two nuns whose stories Keating briefly
> retells,
> > > we may arrive at transforming union either with or without exuberant
> > > mystical experiences.
> > >
> > > St. John of the Cross said that contemplative prayer is a ray of
> > > darkness. The darkness of faith is the evidence of things not seen;
> and
> > > "the way of pure faith is to persevere in contemplative practice
> without
> > > worrying about where we are on the journey, and without comparing
> > > ourselves with others or judging others' gifts as better than ours."
> > >
> > > It is commitment to the journey and faithful practice rather than
> > > spiritual experiences that lead to the transforming union. Though we
> > > cannot perceive it through our natural senses, "the divine light of
> > > faith is totally available in the degree that we consent and
> surrender
> > > ourselves to its presence and action within us."
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Looks like I've got some reading to do, emptybill. Thanks for the
> > > sources.
> > > >
> > > > Why can't everyone just agree with me: My theory is so damn
> reasonable
> > > and commonsensical. No?
> > > >
> > > > No, I knew I was in for it in posting that response to what, all
> > > things considered, *is* a beautiful prayer. (If I had seen in the
> > > mid-seventies, I would have memorized it right then and there.)
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Robin
> > > > >
> > > > > You theological knowledge appears quite restricted, as do your
> > > > > evaluations.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Haven't you ever read St. Dionysius Areopagite?
> > > > >
> > > > > What about the Skemmata of Evagius? St. Maximus the Confessor?
> St.
> > > > > Gregory Palamas? St. Symeon the New Theologian?
> > >
> >
>
