--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...>
wrote:
<snip>
> The big difference between Barry and I and Vaj is that
> he has decided to post anonymously.
No, that's entirely secondary. You and Barry could
post anonymously without your TM teacher credentials
ever coming in question.
> I have always felt that your discussions about Vaj on the
> language of TM were influenced by his allegiance to other
> systems of meditation where the terminology has shifted his
> perception of what the TM instructions REALLY mean.
Yes, I know, and I understand what you're saying. It's
clear that this is the case with much of what Vaj says
about TM.
But it doesn't explain why he says things like
"Mindfulness of mantra or 'waiting for the mantra' is a
natural and important part of TM."
He's elaborated on this in a number of different posts
in ways that make it crystal clear he believes TMers
are instructed to "wait for the mantra"--that's at the
beginning of meditation--and to monitor their meditation
throughout, as well as quoting the checking notes way
out of context in an attempt to justify the above.
He has also indicated he believes the checking
procedure routinely involves checking one's mantra *and
being corrected if the pronunciation isn't quite right*.
I don't think you're really interested in looking into
this; I think you'd prefer to hold onto your
rationalization above. But just say the word, and I'll
provide references to the posts I'm referring to.
I'll give you just one further example:
-----
[Vaj wrote, referring specifically to TM:]
If you allow the mantra to begin on it's own, you're picking
it up at it's own level. Otherwise you have to "introduce"
the mantra as a discursive thought, starting out at a grosser
level. Apparently many people have ***missed this instruction***
and must just introduce the mantra discursively rather than
with mindfulness (smriti). [***emphasis added]
[Vaj quoting me from a previous thread:]
"He's still wrong, of course; it's not a matter of
whether the word "waiting" is used, it's the concept
involved--and the fact that the only *instruction*
given for how to begin meditating is to introduce the
mantra volitionally (but effortlessly). Not a thing
about "waiting" for it or "monitoring" it, either in
those words or conceptually."
Ms. JS, alleged TM meditator.
-----
Vaj is asserting that TMers are instructed to allow the
mantra to begin on its own, but that many of them "miss"
this instruction and instead introduce the mantra
volitionally ("discursively"). And of course "alleged
TM meditator" is intended to suggest I don't know
what I'm talking about.
When challenged on this, he doubled down.
Note that point #7, which tells the meditator it's OK
if the mantra starts on its own, is used in checking
*only if the meditator interrupts the regular procedure
to mention that this has happened*. It isn't an
instruction, just a reassurance.
Finally, it isn't just me who's dubious. As I've noted,
five former or current TM teachers here are on the record
as doubting that Vaj was ever a TM teacher, as well as
Lawson, who took checker training (as did I, although I
was never certified), all of them on the basis of Vaj's
remarks about TM instruction: raunchy, billyG, emptybill,
nabby, and do.rkflex.
<snip>
> Don't you think his obvious joy in busting the apparently
> goat-like balls of Maharishi is unlikely to be from an
> outsider with no reason to focus on this one guy out of
> all the other gurus in the world?
Not really. Just for instance, he may have a family
member or close friend who he believes was harmed by TM
(that could account for his knowledge of some "insider"
aspects of TM as well as his serious misunderstandings
of TM instruction and practice).
And just in general, I've encountered numerous anticult
activists who were never themselves involved in any of
the groups they criticized (including TM--there were quite
a few of them on alt.m.t back in the day).
Further, how do you know that MMY is the only guru he
demonizes? He could be active on any number of other
forums using different handles.
> Seriously. That seems so improbable. Even his recent
> interactions with and about Robin speak to his previous
> involvement in TM at a committed level.
As noted, he definitely has some insider knowledge, but
he could have various sources for that without ever
himself having been involved. Not difficult to fake,
unlike a TM teacher's knowledge of how TM is taught and
practiced.
Robin was deeply suspicious of Vaj's TMer status even
after Vaj told Robin he'd spent Guru Purnima one year
doing the puja with him at one of Robin's seminars.
Robin's doubt was a matter of intuition rather than
examination of Vaj's statements about TM instruction,
however. (See post 289685.)
