Maybe because I'm interested in mantra shastra? Maybe because I wanted to learn more than what the rather limited TMO had to offer? Maybe because I know about other paths and have friends in those paths who did learn more?
Believe what you want to believe. It's all just an illusion anyway. :-D On 03/11/2013 12:13 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote: > Why do you have to learn mantra shastra? Lots of people have gotten > enlightened and become masters without any mantra at all. That is I assume > this. Because enlightenment as an experience is only experienced by the > person having it, we can only inductively extrapolate that experience to > other individual bodies, since we do not have another body's experience. So > in strict empirical terms, we cannot ever know with perfect certainty that > another person is enlightened. > > It is said that those who are enlightened know that that state applies to all > beings at all times and places. That is all beings are in the enlightened > state. They just have some problems with the way they think about what state > they are in. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <noozguru@...> wrote: >> As I indicate in my post TM is a dead end if you want to become a real >> master. It's just a teaching for the masses. You'll never learn about >> mantra shastra which is important for that. I got what I wanted and >> more with one on one instruction from a real master. Serious students >> should not waste their time with pop gurus and movements. >> >> Good luck on your project. I've been in the entertainment industry all >> my life in one phase or another. I have some videos on the Captain >> Bebops channel on YouTube: >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CaptBebops >> >> They're mainly "sketches" as for YouTube I'm not going to try to polish. >> >> On 03/11/2013 10:13 AM, sound of stillness wrote: >>> You say you came to a "dead end" doing TM. What was the dead end that you >>> came to? >>> >>> p.s. My writing experience is in multi-media. The screenplay I'm writing >>> may come to an iPad near you. >>> >>> >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <noozguru@> wrote: >>>> On 03/10/2013 01:10 PM, sound of stillness wrote: >>>>> In Dialogue, a group of people can explore the individual and collective >>>>> presuppositions, ideas, beliefs, and feelings that subtly control their >>>>> interactions. It provides an opportunity to participate in a process >>>>> that displays communication successes and failures. It can reveal the >>>>> often puzzling patterns of incoherence that lead the group to avoid >>>>> certain issues or, on the other hand, to insist, against all reason, on >>>>> standing and defending opinions about particular issues. >>>>> >>>>> Dialogue is a way of observing, collectively, how hidden values and >>>>> intentions can control our behavior, and how unnoticed cultural >>>>> differences can clash without our realizing what is occurring. It can >>>>> therefore be seen as an arena in which collective learning takes place >>>>> and out of which a sense of increased harmony, fellowship and creativity >>>>> can arise. >>>>> >>>>> Because the nature of Dialogue is exploratory, its meaning and its >>>>> methods continue to unfold. No firm rules can be laid down for >>>>> conducting a Dialogue because its essence is learning - not as the >>>>> result of consuming a body of information or doctrine imparted by an >>>>> authority, nor as a means of examining or criticizing a particular >>>>> theory or programme, but rather as part of an unfolding process of >>>>> creative participation between peers. >>>>> >>>>> Dialogue is concerned with providing a space within which such attention >>>>> can be given. It allows a display of thought and meaning that makes >>>>> possible a kind of collective proprioception or immediate mirroring back >>>>> of both the content of thought and the less apparent, dynamic structures >>>>> that govern it. In Dialogue this can be experienced both individually >>>>> and collectively. >>>>> >>>>> Each listener is able to reflect back to each speaker, and to the rest >>>>> of the group, a view of some of the assumptions and unspoken >>>>> implications of what is being expressed along with that which is being >>>>> avoided. It creates the opportunity for each participant to examine the >>>>> preconceptions, prejudices and the characteristic patterns that lie >>>>> behind his or her thoughts, opinions, beliefs and feelings, along with >>>>> the roles he or she tends habitually to play. And it offers an >>>>> opportunity to share these insights. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.david-bohm.net/dialogue/dialogue_proposal.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Meditation Research Conference Hosted by NY Academy of Sciences by >>>>> Christine Schrum on February 26, 2013 >>>>> >>>>> http://www.tm.org/blog/research/meditation-research-conference/ >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Fred Travis said . . . >>>>> >>>>> "It was really a bold move to bring together researchers of all >>>>> these different types of meditation techniques," said Dr. Travis, >>>>> when asked about the event. "But the organizers knew we'd all be >>>>> united by one common belief: that scientific research can help us to >>>>> better understand the subjective experiences we have during meditation, >>>>> and the growth of consciousness." >>>>> >>>>> During his presentation, Travis shared research showing that different >>>>> types of meditation have different short- and long-term benefits. >>>>> Referencing his 2010 paper, he delineated three categories of meditation >>>>> distinguished by their procedures and associated brain patterns: Focused >>>>> Attention, Open Monitoring and Automatic Self-Transcending. >>>>> >>>>> =============== >>>>> >>>>> Is there any of the experienced yogis and meditators among us, of one >>>>> type of meditation or another, interested in coming up with a working >>>>> definition(s) of Enlightenment and how the different types of meditation >>>>> from a variety of traditions help us radiate more of the light of >>>>> aware-ness along the way. >>>>> >>>>> One provisional working definition I have cobbled together is . . . >>>>> >>>>> Enlightenment is being in harmony with our own state of evolution. Each >>>>> state of consciousness has its own reality and teaching, both >>>>> inseparable and distinct from one another as night is from day. >>>>> >>>>> Does Maharishi Patanjali's eight limbs of yoga include the different >>>>> types of meditation, different types of focal awareness that Dr. Travis >>>>> mentioned? >>>>> >>>>> Does MMY's "program" include Focused Attention and Open Monitoring as >>>>> well Automatic Self-Transcending? Does any tradition? >>>>> >>>>> What forms of Yoga and techniques, would you include if you were >>>>> creating a program that included the different types of meditation >>>>> and practice? A practice that would be helpful for a beginner or someone >>>>> more experienced. >>>>> >>>>> With tradition as a guide, approaching all things anew . . . >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>> I learned and taught TM but because I wanted to learn more dropped it >>>> since it was a dead end. 13 years ago I was initiated into tantra by a >>>> genuine Indian trantric who had moved to the SF Bay Area. He taught me >>>> a lot about tantra and I was on the path to be an acharya but that's >>>> something more for a young person to do (he started when he was 16). >>>> Unfortunately he passed away last year. >>>> >>>> One thing about other systems and enlightenment it's more about "moksha" >>>> and experiencing the development of it rather than defining it. People >>>> may experience the path to enlightenment by different routes so >>>> comparison can be confusing. It is a bad idea to claim to be >>>> enlightened because there is always still some samskaras remaining that >>>> will make you different from others. And that difference will confuse >>>> people if you claim enlightenment. >>>> >>>> Also other traditions could give a shit about measuring things. I told >>>> my teacher that I was going to measure my meditation by creating my own >>>> heart monitor and recording it on my laptop. He told me not to. >>>> However I recently purchased an oximeter which tracks pulse realtime as >>>> well as oxygen level. I bought it more to see if it might be useful as >>>> a cheap way to determine metabolic type. With other traditions it's >>>> more about if the program works for you or not. If it doesn't then they >>>> understand if one wants to move on. Just as there is no one diet for >>>> everyone neither is there any one meditation program for everyone. >>>> >>>> BTW, off topic I noticed you mentioned you are working on a screenplay. >>>> Have you written other ones and had them produced? >>>> >>> > >
