--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" <emptybill@...> wrote: > > > Aufklärung Clearing Up. > > There is no thing as "enlightenment" - as that term is used here > o FFL. There has never been an "enlightenment" - whether > discovered, realized or attained. That includes immediate insights or > gradual understandings. There was only Aufklärung Clearing Up. > > Enlightenment? There never was and never will be such a thing - except > as the title for a cultural movement in British history. This term was > originally used as a title for an 18th century European cultural era, > which in English was called "The Enlightenment" but in German > was titled Zeitalter der Aufklärung - the Age of Clearing Up. > > Only recently has the title "enlightenment" become a silly > neo-hindu and neo-buddhist synonym for Japanese Zen "kensho" or > "satori", particularly by euro-american buddhist writers. > > Any object, state or condition that has a beginning has an end by > definition. "Experience", also by definition, is a transient > manifestation to a "perceiver". Any experience of > "enlightenment" is likewise just a transient occurrence that is > judged (after the "fact") to somehow be ultimately significant. > > All this is utter make-believe. It is a false interpretation -both of > Shankara's Advaita and of Buddhist Mahamudra and Dzogchen. > > > Just remember the most secret mantra that finally liberates us: > > > om gomaya gomaya swaha (or in English) > > "bullshit bullshit is here offered" > >
Doc says, "A foundation in PC is a foundation in silence, whereas a foundation in ego, is a foundation in stories." That sounds about right to me. Anything that isn't silence is just another bullshit story about what enlightenment is or is not, whether you call it enlightenment or not. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/344662 > > > > > > > > > - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: > > > > Hi Share, Barry said something in his reply to you that is pretty > confused, and I wanted to clear it up. He states that he has, had long > flashes or periods of enlightenment. Wow, what a mess. > > > > Just so you know, he is talking about what I call "dirty" witnessing. > There is a temporary conditioning of the mind that can be triggered by > extra meditation, fasting, etc. where one gets the feeling of being > outside of oneself. This is absolutely NOT enlightenment, and never has > been. Although some silence may be there, and the physiology mimics a > state of silence, the shift in identity has not occurred, the > enlightened realization that, "I am not the small self", has not > occurred. > > > > So Barry, contrary to his confusion has not experienced enlightenment, > ever. There are other examples of his confusion when he talks about it, > but this one is enough for now, to clearly illustrate the reality. The > only way he views enlightenment is as some sort of counter to his > identity - he is afraid of it, but doesn't have a clue what it is. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > > > > > turq, I often encounter devoted and long term TMers who > > > > even currently enjoy spending time with their children > > > > and grandchildren. As regards living for enlightenment, > > > > many of the sidhas I know are living for the sake of > > > > living itself, the richness of it, just riding those > > > > waves of life. Yes, they engage in a particular activity > > > > to develop themselves more, but isn't that part of being > > > > human? > > > > > > Only for those who believe that life is not fulfilled > > > in every moment, and that there is something "more" to > > > achieve. > > > > > > > For example, don't you yourself engage in activities to > > > > develop as a writer? > > > > > > Other than writing itself? Never. > > > > > > > Anyway, you sound angry in your last paragraph. Were you? > > > > > > The only reason I'm replying is that you are the fourth > > > person to have gotten their buttons pushed by two little > > > words, "Fuck enlightenment." When I saw the reactions > > > in Message View, I honestly had to go back to reread > > > the original piece to figure out what they were talking > > > about. There was not a *microgram* of anger in me as > > > I wrote that. It is simply how I feel about enlight- > > > enment. It, the reverence for it, and the desire to > > > attain or realize it simply have no place in my life. > > > I felt no emotion whatsoever writing those words, > > > because the concept of enlightenment holds no interest > > > for me whatsoever. It was as meaningless an aside as > > > if I'd said, "Fuck ketchup." > > > > > > > If yes, why? > > > > > > Irrelevant. Someday you should learn that the fact that > > > someone does not necessarily have to feel the same way > > > about things as you do. Enlightenment, schmitenment. > > > I've never seen -- or experienced -- any evidence that > > > it does anything for anyone other than the person who > > > is experiencing it. It's a *completely* subjective > > > experience, of no benefit to any other human being. > > > Living in hope of "attaining" or "realizing" that? > > > What a waste of life. But living in hope of doing > > > something nice for someone else? Now that's something > > > worth living for. > > > > > > Given a choice between spending a little quality time > > > with Maya or being enlightened, and I'd go for Mayatime > > > anytime. Given a choice of spending time with any > > > supposedly enlightened being in history -- including > > > the original Buddha -- and I'd go for Mayatime anytime. > > > > > > In all honesty, if you had ever had long flashes or > > > periods of enlightenment, you might feel differently > > > about it. I have. I prefer Mayatime, and here-and- > > > now-time, anytime. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 4:59 AM > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Free Man In Paris, v3.01 > > > > > > > > I was having dinner with a friend from work last night in a small > > > > restaurant on the Ile St. Louis, and it turned into an interesting > > > > opportunity to teach, and to learn. My friend is someone I work > with -- > > > > another American ex-pat, a former jazz pianist turned tech writer, > > > > originally from San Francisco but living and working here in > Europe for > > > > the last dozen years, so we have a lot in common and lots to talk > about. > > > > But we wound up talking about none of those things because two > people > > > > came in and sat at the small table next to us. > > > > > > > > They were an older woman (but younger than either of us) and a > young > > > > girl (who we learned was 12). The girl heard us talking in English > and > > > > started a conversation, and I'm glad she did. It turns out she is > from > > > > Atlanta, brought here by her grandmother for her first trip to > Europe. > > > > The grandmother is doing this because the young girl is an > aspiring > > > > artist, and she wanted her granddaughter to have the experience of > > > > seeing this place and its art close up, in person. > > > > > > > > And they both turned out to be charming. Both were so open to > > > > suggestions as to what to see and where to go while in Paris, and > my > > > > friend and I both benefited from hearing them talk about the > things > > > > they'd seen so far. It was like being able to experience them for > the > > > > first time ourselves -- all the excitement, all the wonder. > > > > > > > > It was a charming evening, and I hope that we were able to steer > both of > > > > them to some sights and experiences they will enjoy and cherish, > and > > > > that will inspire them as they inspired us. My biggest "take away" > from > > > > the evening, however, was seeing the joy in the young girl's eyes, > and > > > > in her grandmother's at having been able to help put it there, and > > > > looking forward to being able to do the same thing some day for > Maya. > > > > > > > > Fuck enlightenment, or realization, or any of the things that > people > > > > here seem to "live for." If there is anything that'll inspire me > to keep > > > > on keepin' on for another few years, it's the idea of being able > to show > > > > Paris and other cool places to Maya for the first time... > > > > > > > > > >
