--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > > OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of
> > > an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by
> > > the desire not to be overshadowed. But that's the
> > > nature of the beast, part of why ignorance is so
> > > sticky.
> > >
> > > The point I was making to Rory, though, is that with
> > > me it's not a matter of having some set of idealized
> > > criteria for realization, i.e., what I expect
> > > realization to be like; rather, my single criterion
> > > for realization is *not* having the fundamental
> > > criterion for ignorance.
Rory:
> > Yes, that alone is sufficient to overshadow "realization" --
> > denying the validity <snip>
Judy:
> I'm not denying anything. I'm describing
> what is the case for me. That's my reality.
Rory:
Right, and nicely so. Yet it appears you are saying that *this* --
whatever it is -- *isn't* It. That's all I meant by "denying" --
denying the presence of "It" in this moment, by virtue of comparing
this "not-It" moment with some other moment, not-now,
elsewhen/elsewhere -- some other moment that apparently had more
clarity, more Presence. I am suggesting that that longed-for clarity
and Presence is nothing other than a side-effect of our
unconditional attention and appreciation of whatever we are
undergoing in this moment. So long as we do *not* appreciate *this*
moment as a "god-given" gift we have not yet fully unwrapped and
understood -- that long do we find it to be shrouded in darkness,
ignorance, fear, suffering, and so on: the darkness and ignorance of
our own lack of attention and unconditional appreciation. When we
simply "be" with it, breathe with it, allow ourselves to feel it in
the body non-judgmentally ("this too is good" -- or "...God"
or "...bliss" --), relaxing into it while appreciating it, then it
lightens up. It becomes integrated into our larger Whole, ceasing to
be a (minor or major) demon plaguing us (actually, painfully
demanding our attention and love), and now becoming a part of our
angelic choir :-)
> > ("perfection", is-ness, ever-presence,
> > whatever) of your "fundamental criterion for ignorance" --
trying
> > *not* to embody the fundamental criterion for ignorance.
Judy:
> I'm not "trying" to do anything. I'm describing
> what is the case for me. That's my reality.
Rory:
Yes, I believe I get that, and I get that you feel powerless to do
anything about it, other than meditate and wait. So be it. I am
perfectly OK with that reality if you are; if you are not, then I am
suggesting an alternate POV and some methods that may shortcut the
process, and even collapse it into this moment, that's all. For
example: Where in the body do we feel stuck and/or powerless? What
happens if we simply attend to it, appreciate it, breathe with it,
let it fully feel, allow it to be unconditionally OK in that feeling?
> In denying
> > ignorance (tamas), we cling to clarity (sattva), and get (as if)
> > stuck inside the gunas, rather than remembering they are all
merely
> > ideas *in us* :-)
Judy:
> > > I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do
> > > know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words.
Rory:
> > "Being realized" isn't "like" anything <snip>
Judy:
> Yes, it is. It's like being realized. It's *not*
> like being in ignorance.
Rory:
How do you know this, if you don't know what being realized is? In
my experience/understanding anyhow, it is *precisely* like being in
ignorance -- with the slight but crucial adjustment that one has
just for this moment stopped unfavorably (or favorably for that
matter) comparing this moment to some other more (or less) ideal
one. One has stepped off the merry-go-round of infinite "progress"
(or "regress"). That's all, that's it. Simple :-)
> > -- other than (say, in that
> > moment) Judy writing she doesn't know what it's like to be
> > realized, but knows what it's like to be ignorant. :-)
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
