OK August 29th, 1956 8:23 am born Greenwood, SC which is 34.1897° N, 82.1547° W
So what does my chart indicate I would be "good at" (other than criticizing
TM). I am asking as a pronounced skeptic.
From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2015 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Maybe this is why things get so screwed up?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote :
Sal, can you post an article about afield of science you know something about
so we can discuss it andask you question about?
Eh? I thought I already had
What fields of science are you expertin? Your horoscope looks like you might
be good at real estate(loaded fourth house) but that's not exactly a science.
Real estate, is that buying and selling houses? Not really, maybe more than
some due to trades I've done but it's all just about being practical, it isn't
something that engages me or that I'd go out of my way to take part in. And I
hate all the bloody property shows on TV, I can't believe so many people are so
incompetent and lacking in common sense. Still, idiots make better TV...
As far as scientific interests go, you know what I like. I don't posts
prehistoric stuff just because Dinosaurs look cool. Well, mostly I don't...
And I don't post things that I don't understand in case someone does ask me a
question. I post stuff because I find it interesting.
Are you trying to get at me about something?
On 03/02/2015 10:46 PM, salyavin808 wrote:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,<no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
You certainly seem to havea high opinion of "science." Science has given us
manywonderful things but there are also many things itcannot explain.
Can you give us an example of something it"cannot" explain, as opposed to
something it justdoesn't have an explanation for yet?
Of the latter there are many but there alwayswere and problems always seem to
get solvedeventually. It depends how much effort is being putin. To not have a
high opinion of the scientificmethod because it hasn't already answered
allquestions is a bit silly when you consider the trackrecord.
As for things it can't explain, I don'tbelieve we will ever come across an
unsolvableproblem. The universe and everything in it is made ofstuff. Stuff is
understandable therefore the universethe universe is understandable.
It will be interesting to be proved wrong onthis one.
However, this does notmean that those things are untrue or false. There
aremore things in heaven and earth, as Hamlet famously saysto Horatio, than are
dreamt of in your philsophy. Isuspect that you actually know this very well,
and thatyour apparent adherence to "science" is more of a posethan anything
else. You were a spiritual seeker allthose years and now you are telling me you
don't believesomething because "science" tells you it is not so? Isuspect your
"atheism" is also something of a pose, butthat's another story.
Feste:As far aswhat science says about astrology, I couldn't careless. If
sciencesays astrology is rubbish, that it cannot be true,etc. etc.,
thatdirectly contradicts my own experience, repeated manytimes over half
alifetime. So I go with my own experience. I would be afool not to.
Turquoise: No,you would be a True Believer, ready to preferyour own
subjectiveexperience no matter what, and never evenconsider the possibility
thatit could have been mistaken -- even if scienceshows that it could verywell
be. I can understand that, but I cannotrespect it.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,<turquoiseb@...> wrote :
From:feste37 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
I'mnot sure what you mean by"normal TM elitist." When I saidthat the
astrologer HowardSasportas also happened to be aTM teacher, I certainly did
notmean that that automaticallymade him better than others. Itwas just a piece
of informationabout him, that's all. Sometimesyou read things that aren'tthere.
I don'tthink so. I wasn'treferring to Sasportasas all, and in factneither his
name nor anyreference you made tohim registered to me atall...I've never
heardof the guy. I wasreferring to a*recurring* sense ofelitism that I
haveperceived in you and in*most* long-term TMers,exemplified instatements like
"I'msorry for thesescientific types whoseminds are so closed. Iwonderwhether
any of them haveever had their natalchart done by acompetentastrologer. I
woulddoubt it." That'selitism. You *look down*on those who don't agreewith you.
Another aspectof elitism, to an evengreater degree, is, "Ihave studied it,
youhave not," which asSalyavin pointed outwasn't even said byIssac Newton
aboutastrology. You say thisa different way in yourlast statement below.
For therecord, I *have noproblem* with yourstatements about havinglearned much
aboutyourself from astrology.That's your concern.Mine is just that as ameans of
prediction,it's utterly andcompletely useless. Itspredictive value hasnever and
will never beproven in any kind ofscientific context inwhich the astrologersare
blinded from meetingtheir clients (and thus"cold-reading" them) andprevented
from makinggeneralized"predictions" that wouldapply to anyone. Anotheraspect of
what I call"TM elitism" is thatlong-term TMers tend tobelieve pretty much*what
they were told tobelieve* by Maharishi,and seem incapable ofchallenging
orquestioning it.
Wewill have to agree to differabout astrology.
That'sfine with me.
There'sfar more to it than intuition.
Idon't think so.
AsI explained to Sal, thereadings I had were not "vaguegeneralities." They
wereprecise and accurate, and theyvery much related to me as aspecific
individual. You musthave either seen some badastrologers or have been solacking
in self-insight thatyou didn't recognize yourselfin what they told you.
Eitherthat, or you are likeall of those collegestudents in the famousexperiment
who wereall given the exactsame horoscope to readand told that it wasdone for
thempersonally. When thereal nature of theexperiment wasrevealed to them,
overhalf refused tobelieve that it wastrue. Even when theycompared
the"readings" they'd beengiven line for lineand found themidentical, a
fewrefused to believe itand thought thatsomeone had switchedthem to play a
trickon them. I think thatit's more likely thatyou bought intogeneralities and
atthis point you don'twant to even admit thepossibility that theyweren't
generalities.But I have no interestin arguing withyou...believe what youwant.
By theway, that "lacking inself-insight" wasanother elitist slam.One might
suggest thatYOU are so lacking inself-insight that youdon't even realizewhen
you're being anelitist.
Iremember hearing that MMY saidthat the only purpose ofastrology was to predict
thefuture.
I haveheard the samething...that he saidthat. That is what Idispute. I don't
thinkastrology is of *anyuse whatsoever* topredict the future.
Idon't think he cared at allabout developing anunderstanding of the"relative"
self, since hepromoted transcendence of it.But I have to disagree withhim over
that. To me,predicting the future has beenthe least important aspect
ofastrology.
That'sfair, and I have noissue with you feelingthat way.
---infairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com,<turquoiseb@...> wrote :
On the contrary, I will step up to the plate and giveFeste adetailed (andlong)
answerfrom my POV,largelybecause Ithink he wastrying *not*to bemean...just
anormal TMelitist. ("Wecan't help itif theseskeptics don'tknow as muchas we
do.") :-)
From: "Michael
Jacksonmjackson74@...[FairfieldLife]"<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
I'llstep aside andwait for Salto answer thisone - anythingI say wouldjust
soundmean.
From: feste37<no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
Inmy experienceover the past35 years, andI have said soon this boardmore
thanonce,astrology isthe best toolforself-understandingthat thereis—at
least,the best Ihave found.
Feste will probably be surprised to learn that I agreewith him
--thatastrology,usedcorrectly, canbe a tool
forself-analysisandself-understanding.But so cantarot cards.So can"reading
tealeaves." Socan diviningthe future byexamining therecently-removedentrails of
ananimal. *In myopinion*, inALL of thesecases it ispossible for aperson to
gainvaluableglimpses intothe lives ofthemselves orothers via anyof
these"diviningtools."
BUT, I would also say that IMO the "tools" have nothingwhatsoever todo with
whatthey "see" orwhat they"learn" exceptby acting as atrigger to setoff their
ownintuition. Theastrologycharts don'tdodiddleysquat,and contain
nousefulinformation.The tea leaveslikewise don'tdo diddley,and as for
theentrails,well, they'rejust a bigsteaming pileof internalorgans. Howall of
thesethings "work"IMO is thatthey *trick*thepractitionerinto accessingtheir
ownintuition.
Think of it in terms of Disney's "Dumbo." Dumbo theelephant hadhuge ears,
andafter hisfriend gavehim a magicfeather tohold in histrunk, hecould flyusing
them.But, afterenjoyingflying a lot,his friendfinally toldhim that itwas a
normalold turkeyfeather, andthat the onlyreason hecould flywhile holdingit
andcouldn't flybefore wasthat he*believed* hecould if hewas holding onto
the"magic"feather. Well,that is how Ithinkastrology,tarot, readingtea
leaves,and readingthe steamingentrails oflemurs"works." Theyare psychictricks
thatthepractitionersof these"arts" play onthemselves totrigger theirown
latentintuition andkickstart itinto working.
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