Why should we not be surprised that MJ is a Leo rising with the Sun in
his first house! :-D
That makes you fiercely independent not to mention fiery. You would do
well running your own business. However we should not be surprised
given your storytelling skills that Venus is in your 11th house. A bit
weak though and that would account for you not going into it as a
living. Not knowing your writing an astrologer would probably say you
have opportunities at earning income through creative endeavors.
Rahu and Ketu are debilitated so why shouldn't we be surprised that you
are on the warpath about TM.
On 03/03/2015 02:00 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
OK August 29th, 1956 8:23 am born Greenwood, SC which is 34.1897° N,
82.1547° W
So what does my chart indicate I would be "good at" (other than
criticizing TM). I am asking as a pronounced skeptic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 3, 2015 1:19 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Maybe this is why things get so screwed up?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote :
Sal, can you post an article about a field of science you know
something about so we can discuss it and ask you question about?
Eh? I thought I already had
What fields of science are you expert in? Your horoscope looks like
you might be good at real estate (loaded fourth house) but that's not
exactly a science.
Real estate, is that buying and selling houses? Not really, maybe more
than some due to trades I've done but it's all just about being
practical, it isn't something that engages me or that I'd go out of my
way to take part in. And I hate all the bloody property shows on TV, I
can't believe so many people are so incompetent and lacking in common
sense. Still, idiots make better TV...
As far as scientific interests go, you know what I like. I don't posts
prehistoric stuff just because Dinosaurs look cool. Well, mostly I
don't...
And I don't post things that I don't understand in case someone does
ask me a question. I post stuff because I find it interesting.
Are you trying to get at me about something?
On 03/02/2015 10:46 PM, salyavin808 wrote:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
You certainly seem to have a high opinion of "science." Science has
given us many wonderful things but there are also many things it
cannot explain.
Can you give us an example of something it "cannot" explain, as
opposed to something it just doesn't have an explanation for yet?
Of the latter there are many but there always were and problems
always seem to get solved eventually. It depends how much effort is
being put in. To not have a high opinion of the scientific method
because it hasn't already answered all questions is a bit silly when
you consider the track record.
As for things it can't explain, I don't believe we will ever come
across an unsolvable problem. The universe and everything in it is
made of stuff. Stuff is understandable therefore the universe the
universe is understandable.
It will be interesting to be proved wrong on this one.
However, this does not mean that those things are untrue or false.
There are more things in heaven and earth, as Hamlet famously says to
Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philsophy. I suspect that you
actually know this very well, and that your apparent adherence to
"science" is more of a pose than anything else. You were a spiritual
seeker all those years and now you are telling me you don't believe
something because "science" tells you it is not so? I suspect your
"atheism" is also something of a pose, but that's another story.
Feste: As far as what science says about astrology, I couldn't care
less. If science says astrology is rubbish, that it cannot be true,
etc. etc., that directly contradicts my own experience, repeated many
times over half a lifetime. So I go with my own experience. I would
be a fool not to.
*/Turquoise: No, you would be a True Believer, ready to prefer your
own subjective experience no matter what, and never even consider the
possibility that it could have been mistaken -- even if science shows
that it could very well be. I can understand that, but I cannot
respect it. /*
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <turquoiseb@...>
<mailto:turquoiseb@...> wrote :
*From:* feste37 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
I'm not sure what you mean by "normal TM elitist." When I said that
the astrologer Howard Sasportas also happened to be a TM teacher, I
certainly did not mean that that automatically made him better than
others. It was just a piece of information about him, that's all.
Sometimes you read things that aren't there.
*/I don't think so. I wasn't referring to Sasportas as all, and in
fact neither his name nor any reference you made to him registered to
me at all...I've never heard of the guy. I was referring to a
*recurring* sense of elitism that I have perceived in you and in
*most* long-term TMers, exemplified in statements like "I'm sorry for
these scientific types whose minds are so closed. I wonder whether
any of them have ever had their natal chart done by a competent
astrologer. I would doubt it." That's elitism. You *look down* on
those who don't agree with you. Another aspect of elitism, to an even
greater degree, is, "I have studied it, you have not," which as
Salyavin pointed out wasn't even said by Issac Newton about
astrology. You say this a different way in your last statement below.
/*
*/
/*
*/For the record, I *have no problem* with your statements about
having learned much about yourself from astrology. That's your
concern. Mine is just that as a means of prediction, it's utterly and
completely useless. Its predictive value has never and will never be
proven in any kind of scientific context in which the astrologers are
blinded from meeting their clients (and thus "cold-reading" them) and
prevented from making generalized "predictions" that would apply to
anyone. Another aspect of what I call "TM elitism" is that long-term
TMers tend to believe pretty much *what they were told to believe* by
Maharishi, and seem incapable of challenging or questioning it. /*
We will have to agree to differ about astrology.
*/That's fine with me.
/*
*/
/*
There's far more to it than intuition.
*/I don't think so. /*
As I explained to Sal, the readings I had were not "vague
generalities." They were precise and accurate, and they very much
related to me as a specific individual. You must have either seen
some bad astrologers or have been so lacking in self-insight that you
didn't recognize yourself in what they told you.
*/Either that, or you are like all of those college students in the
famous experiment who were all given the exact same horoscope to read
and told that it was done for them personally. When the real nature
of the experiment was revealed to them, over half refused to believe
that it was true. Even when they compared the "readings" they'd been
given line for line and found them identical, a few refused to
believe it and thought that someone had switched them to play a trick
on them. I think that it's more likely that you bought into
generalities and at this point you don't want to even admit the
possibility that they weren't generalities. But I have no interest in
arguing with you...believe what you want.
/*
*/By the way, that "lacking in self-insight" was another elitist
slam. One might suggest that YOU are so lacking in self-insight that
you don't even realize when you're being an elitist.
/*
I remember hearing that MMY said that the only purpose of astrology
was to predict the future.
*/I have heard the same thing...that he said that. That is what I
dispute. I don't think astrology is of *any use whatsoever* to
predict the future.
/*
*/
/*
I don't think he cared at all about developing an understanding of
the "relative" self, since he promoted transcendence of it. But I
have to disagree with him over that. To me, predicting the future has
been the least important aspect of astrology.
*/That's fair, and I have no issue with you feeling that way. /*
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <turquoiseb@...>
<mailto:turquoiseb@...> wrote :
*/On the contrary, I will step up to the plate and give Feste a
detailed (and long) answer from my POV, largely because I think he
was trying *not* to be mean...just a normal TM elitist. ("We can't
help it if these skeptics don't know as much as we do.") :-)/*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* "Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
I'll step aside and wait for Sal to answer this one - anything I say
would just sound mean.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* feste37 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
**
In my experience over the past 35 years, and I have said so on this
board more than once, astrology is the best tool for
self-understanding that there is—at least, the best I have found.
*/Feste will probably be surprised to learn that I agree with him --
that astrology, used correctly, can be a tool for self-analysis and
self-understanding. But so can tarot cards. So can "reading tea
leaves." So can divining the future by examining the recently-removed
entrails of an animal. *In my opinion*, in ALL of these cases it is
possible for a person to gain valuable glimpses into the lives of
themselves or others via any of these "divining tools."
/*
*/
/*
*/BUT, I would also say that IMO the "tools" have nothing whatsoever
to do with what they "see" or what they "learn" except by acting as a
trigger to set off their own intuition. The astrology charts don't do
diddleysquat, and contain no useful information. The tea leaves
likewise don't do diddley, and as for the entrails, well, they're
just a big steaming pile of internal organs. How all of these things
"work" IMO is that they *trick* the practitioner into accessing their
own intuition.
/*
*/Think of it in terms of Disney's "Dumbo." Dumbo the elephant had
huge ears, and after his friend gave him a magic feather to hold in
his trunk, he could fly using them. But, after enjoying flying a lot,
his friend finally told him that it was a normal old turkey feather,
and that the only reason he could fly while holding it and couldn't
fly before was that he *believed* he could if he was holding on to
the "magic" feather. Well, that is how I think astrology, tarot,
reading tea leaves, and reading the steaming entrails of lemurs
"works." They are psychic tricks that the practitioners of these
"arts" play on themselves to trigger their own latent intuition and
kickstart it into working.
/*
(Message over 64 KB, truncated)
