Lord, from the number of declawed and indoor cat replies, I have a lot of emails to go thru. Lots of opinions there. As for me, I will put up with the furniture problems, etc. rather than put any of my babies thru any pain and discomfort. Of course, when it comes to fighting and keep or put down type of desision, that is a different situation. Fortunately, I have not had to make any such decision. We have slaps, hisses and screams of "If you come one step closer, I am going to kill you" but usually the screamer turns tail and runs. It is just show. It does get a bit noisy sometimes. If only the 2 screamers could be made to understand that if they just ignored the others, they would give up and stop pestering them. Really do wish I could sit them down and explain it to them. ---- Diane Rosenfeldt <drosenfe...@wi.rr.com> wrote: > My housemate and I were faced with such a decision 10 or 11 years ago, when > we moved from our separate apartments to our formerly-two-flat house, and > melded our cat families. She had two, an elderly lady named Kitty and a > pugnacious orange boy named Tribble. I had 3 -- my laid-back Luc, my > introverted fluffy tortie Phoebe, and my mom's black girly, Missy. Tribble > had always deferred to Kitty when they lived together, and continued to do > so, thank goodness. But as time went on and our cat population changed a > little, Tribble showed quite a bit of aggression, and we had to take > somebody or other to the vet to have bites treated at least twice. So we > were in a real bind, since we are both cats-are-family-for-life people, and > we did love Tribble with all his peculiarities. We knew nobody would adopt > him anyway. We are both anti-declaw and had the raggedy furniture to prove > it, but we decided that for the safety of the other cats we would have him > declawed, feeling maybe he would lose some aggressiveness, and also that he > might still be able to bite, but he wouldn't be able to dig in and hold on > while he did so. We found the one place in town at the time that did the > laser technique. > > We were worried about all the things mentioned -- the pain, the litter > problems, the behavioral problems. But he really seemed not to mind, even > during the first days. He was fine with the litterbox, and didn't develop > any behavioral problems above and beyond the ones he had going in. He was > still aggressive, but wasn't able to inflict nearly the damage, which was > mission accomplished as far as we were concerned. The upside for him is that > to this day he still tries to sharpen those claws on furniture, wicker etc., > and he's the only one that doesn't get shooed away. I know we got lucky > here, and that most cats suffer more, but if we had it to do again we'd > still make the same decision under the same circumstances. It was either > that or sentence Tribble to almost certain death. > > Diane R. > > -----Original Message----- > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:49 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors > > I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its > life.....for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, > Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, > there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused > some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have > limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. > I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that > has already been declawed. > On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: > > > That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and > > how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many > > vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from > > us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats > > will be kept indoors only, the vets said "Oh, you have an option to > > declaw!" Banfield Health. > > The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for "kitten health" - all > > the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to > > them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous > > comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it > > privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut > > ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to > > them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big > > leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing > > it to cats...no reply from them. > > O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up > > or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.....Besides, not all cats grow > > up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their > > nails works well. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor > > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM > > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors > > > > > > Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted > > two > > kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. > > Yes, I > > HAD told her before hand "NO declawing" but people don't listen and > > they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is > > peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from > > the surgery. SIGH :( > > > >> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 > >> From: at...@optonline.net > >> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >> Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors > >> > >> Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out > >> just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr > >> old to > > play > >> in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I > >> hear > > "but > >> the cat gets out", I tell them that they control the door, period! > >> Our > >> adoption contract stipulates "strictly indoors" - but, there's no > >> real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live > >> and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed > >> several adopted > > cats > >> over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, > >> doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and > >> noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spaying....she > >> looked into the carrier > > and > >> noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.....she gave her an > >> earful, > > but > >> what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet > >> another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that > >> veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be > >> declawed, and should > > a > >> customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that > >> my other veterinarian would never declaw! > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > >> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM > >> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors > >> > >> > >> Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge > >> drink or > > do > >> drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The > >> same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean > >> it's good for them. My cats may be "prisoners" in my house but I > >> sleep well at > > night > >> knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are > >> pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered > >> bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will > >> EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a > >> leash. > >> > >> There was a young "individual" (can't call him a man because real men > >> do > > not > >> torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside > >> cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and > >> video taped > > the > >> entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may > >> be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by > >> coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. > >> > >> Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with "cats are wild animals and need to > >> live outside" point of view. > >> > >> Just my 2 cents. > >> > >> Edna > >> > >>> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 > >>> From: at...@optonline.net > >>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors > >>> > >>> As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I > >>> am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I > >>> would > > do > >> no > >>> less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats > >>> that I > >>> rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be > >>> safe and > >>> happy for a long time. > >>> Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and > > none > >>> are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for > >>> cats to > > be > >>> outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, > >>> until > >> one > >>> of our kittens was killed by a car....Unfortunately, it takes many > > people > >> to > >>> understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells > >>> me > > that > >>> their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never left....and they > > intend > >>> to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may > >>> have > >>> indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It > > takes > >>> ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and > >>> WHAM! > >>> Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a > >>> window, a > >>> window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and > >>> active. > >>> More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to > >>> really > >>> elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't > > believe > >>> that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but > > there's > >> no > >>> need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but > >>> for > > fun > >>> and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > >>> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie > >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM > >>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors > >>> > >>> This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat > >>> are the main threat to birds. > >>> > >>> As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they > >>> have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to > >>> 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like > >>> heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside > >>> before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. > >>> > >>> It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living > >>> indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made > >>> us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, > >>> cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to > >>> hunt small animals....which is the best nutrition for them. They > >>> need > >>> to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. > >>> Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a > >>> prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. > >>> > >>> It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but > >>> this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area > >>> with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be > >>> outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the > >>> indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road > >>> with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see > >>> them catch a bird, but they catch many mice & moles. I feel sad to > >>> see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is > >>> what > >>> they were designed to do. > >>> > >>> Lorrie > >>> > >>> > >>>> Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one > >>>> killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for > > same. > >>> > >>>>> Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds > >>>>> http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 > >>>>> > >>>>> SomeWhere Sam > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Felvtalk mailing list > >>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Felvtalk mailing list > >>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Felvtalk mailing list > >> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ > >> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Felvtalk mailing list > >> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ > >> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Felvtalk mailing list > >> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ > >> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Felvtalk mailing list > >> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ > >> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Felvtalk mailing list > > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Felvtalk mailing list > > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
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