On 19 Sep 2002 at 15:09, Mark D. Lew wrote [quoting me] []
> >Knowing what I know now, I don't know if I'd try typing in the lyrics > >and then click assigning. I understand the logic there, but the CLICK > >ASSIGNMENT window has got to be the most user unfriendly window I've > >ever seen -- the visual feedback is very poor, it can't be resized, > >you can't really tell where you are, it's hard to go back without > >losing your place. > > That's an excellent point. This could be made a lot more friendly. It's a hideously scary dialog. I feel very, very uncomforable with it because I really can't see what the hell is going on. > . . . I'm not sure I could do that with a piece where > >there is lots of repetition of lyrics (as there is in Mozart's > >Requiem). > > If I were setting Mozart's Requiem, I'd enter the lyrics in their entirety, > repeats and all (using copy-and-paste within the Edit Lyrics window where > appropriate), then click-assign them all at once with option-click and > shift as necessary. . . . You assume that the repetition is the same in all voices. It isn't. > . . . By the way, it's the option-click that makes > click-assignment more efficient that type-in-score. If you're assigning > each syllable individually, there's no real efficiency gain. Option-click > also makes it easier to avoid the user-unfriendliness of the window, since > you don't need to maneuver within it so much. You're lapsing into Mac-speak -- I have no idea what you mean by OPTION-CLICK. I understand that it's one of the shift keys, but it is peculiar to the Mac, and I don't know what it maps to on Windows, nor what it does. It seems to me that Finale is prejudiced towards homophonic music, in which there is one note per syllable and all the voices sing the text at the same time. For polyphonic, melismatic music, the assumption breaks down. Which version of the text should I type in? The Soprano version? The Alto version? The Tenor version? The Bass version? Each has different repetitions and different melismas. If you are recommending putting each in separately in EDIT LYRICS, then I simply so no virtue over TYPE IN SCORE, except in terms of it being "closer to the metal" in terms of the flaws in Finale's UI implementation. > >My conclusion is that I'm not sure how to approach the problem next > >time. Yes, I understand better how it all works, but I didn't get any > >of that from the documentation (though I admit I have never done the > >lyrics tutorial -- TYPE INTO SCORE seems too straightforward to need > >a tutorial; lesson learned, I guess). And I really never got an > >explanation from the responses here on the list. > > Sorry. We tried our best. It may have helped if I'd realized you were in an > earlier version. . . . ??? I'm using WinFin2003. [] > >In short, this subsection of Finale is a horrid mess. It is built > >around a number of rigid assumptions about the way lyrics work in > >real musical situations and because of the rigidity with which those > >assumptions have driven the design of the user interface, the bolted- > >on TYPE INTO SCORE feature (by far the most intuitive way to enter > >lyrics, seems to me), which is very poorly connected to the > >underlying data storage, very easily leads users into creating a mess > >that will become corrupted very easily. > > I think the original assumption was that users who use Type In Score would > never look at the Edit Lyrics windows at all. . . . A valid assumption, as until the point at which I had a problem, I had not looked at it, ever. And I think a proper UI should not *require* that you do so. > . . . The fact that they did, with > resulting complaints about the misordered text, is why it was updated so > that Finale now attempts to logically order the lyrics within the Edit > Lyrics window. This creates its own problems, but it's probably less > offensive than the earlier versions. I had forgotten that you're using an > earlier version of Finale. (When asking for assistance, it would be helpful > if you remind us.) I am not using an earlier version. > >One of the reasons my lyrics were such a mess is because I entered > >them from an existing score, two pages at a time. That is, from one > >opening of my source score, for example, I typed in the bass lyrics, > >then the alto, then the soprano and then the tenor. That is a > >PERFECTLY LOGICAL entry method. > > If the music is not homophonic, I would recommend separate verses for each > voice. (A "verse" is simply a grouping of lyric texts. The word "verse" > shouldn't be taken too literally.) For SATB, I routinely put soprano in > verse 1, alto in verse 2, tenor in verse 3, bass in verse 4. That way, I > can enter the lyrics in whichever order I choose. In other words, you put them in in a manner that exhibits yet another counterintuitive approach. Mozart's Requiem has only one "verse," and the fact that you recommend putting it in as thought it does not shows yet another adaptation to Finale's bollixed-up requirements. > I think that's how most users do it. That's how it's done on the Finale > sample files. See, eg, "de Lassus", which incidentally also belies the two > "assumptions" you suggested Finale makes about how lyrics will always be. I've not idea what your point of reference is. > Putting all four parts into a single verse can get you into trouble with > things like Shift Lyrics, since the program will assume that one text > follows consecutively after the other. Likewise if you're entering lyrics > page at a time and you've got a hyphen over the page turn. If Finale would maintain the separate parts as separate streams, then it would work OK. You are forcing that on Finale by calling them separate verses, which in reality they are not. > >But because the user interface is not > >sufficiently abstracted from the data storage, this creates a huge > >mess in the EDIT LYRICS window (the canonical text). In fact, it > >seems to me that the canonical text is what displays in the score, > >not what displays out of context in the EDIT LYRICS window. > > That's fine if what displays in the score has an obvious order, but > sometimes it doesn't. Sure it does! Everything in the top line of the score should come first, followed by everything in the second line and so forth. > As for next time, my recommendations are: (1) try out the > option-click-assign and see if you like it. (2) Regardless of your input > method, keep your separate parts in separate verses. You might have to > alter a baseline, depending on what default document you're working from. Again, you are recommending doing things in the counterintuitive ways. I understand that your advice is good. But you have to recognize that there's something fundamentally broken in a program that requires you to jump through so many hoops to accomplish a very straightforward task. -- David W. Fenton | http://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associates | http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
