Dear Guy and FIS colleagues, Thank you for your comments and the copy of your article. Your views on the roots of biological systems and their evolution in dissipate systems are very interesting. Your paper reminds me of a paper by Virgo and Froese on how simple dissipative structures can demonstrate many of the characteristics associated with living systems, and the work of Jeremy England at MIT.
Given your research focus and expertise in looking at living systems as dissipative systems, I would appreciate your views and assistance in understanding the energetics involved in the common multilevel organisational pattern (CMOP) (presented in the paper II of the kick-off mail). At first glance, it appears that different levels in self-organization in living systems a core dynamic in living systems is comprised of a cycle between a class of more-stable species (coupled-composite species) and a class of less-stable species (decoupled-composite species), see paper II in the kick-off mail. hence: Level 1: Molecular self-organization, involves a cycle between oxidised molecules (more stable) and reduced molecules (less stable) in molecular self-organization in photosynthesis and cellular metabolism [Morowitz and smith]. Level 2: Cellular self-orgnaization, involves a cycle between autotrophic species (more stable) and heterotrophic species (less stable) in ecosystems [Stability of species types as defined by- Yodzis and Innes Yodzis, P.; Innes, S. Body Size and Consumer-Resource Dynamics. Am. Nat. 1992, 139, 1151]. Level 3: Social self-self-organization, involves a cycle between kinship-based social groups (more stable) and non-kinship-based social groups (less stable) [Stability of species types as suggested in Paper II, based on an extension of work of Robin Dunbar and others]. At level 1 (molecular self-organiztion)- solar energy is stored in the high-energy reduced molecules. Do you see a possibility that living systems could store energy in cycles involving less stable species at the two other levels (level 2, and 3) as well? (When I speak of stored energy, I am referring to stored-energy as introduced by Mclare, and discussed by Ulanowicz and Ho [Sustainable Systems as Organisms?, BioSystems 82 (2005) 39–51]. These are early thoughts and your views are much appreciated. Many Thanks, Warm regards, Nikhil Joshi > On 01-Dec-2015, at 10:27 pm, Guy A Hoelzer <hoel...@unr.edu > <mailto:hoel...@unr.edu>> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have been following this thread with interest as much as time permits. I > think multilevel approaches to understanding information flow is an important > one. I also think the structure of natural systems exhibits both > hierarchical and heterarchical features. The hierarchies we formally > recognize can be extremely useful, but they are rarely exclusive of > alternatives. Here is a link to a paper Mark Tessera and I published a > couple of years ago arguing for one particular hierarchy of multilevel > emergence in physical systems connecting lower level physical systems to > biological systems: > > Tessara, M., and G. A. Hoelzer. 2013. On the thermodynamics of multilevel > evolution. Biosystems 113: 140–143. > > Regards, > > Guy > > Guy Hoelzer, Associate Professor > Department of Biology > University of Nevada Reno > > Phone: 775-784-4860 > Fax: 775-784-1302 > hoel...@unr.edu <mailto:hoel...@unr.edu>
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