I stand by "rights talk is madness", but Glen may .... MAY .... have taken
it a bit too far for me.
Quine said something like, "if we had to reason our way to good behavior,
the human race would have died long ago." Empathy and caregiving are as
natural to human beings as lust.
So, while talking about "my rights" or "your obligations" is nutty,
talking about "my obligations" makes sense to me. In any case, it should
be obvious that, in the absense of somebody who feels an obligation, having
a right is worthless.
One other point: "Ideology and illusion"are real things and one has to plan
for them in any political philosophy. So is "madness" for that matter.
nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu)
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe]
> [Original Message]
> From: Robert J. Cordingley <rob...@cirrillian.com>
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com>
> Date: 2/15/2010 9:33:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Health care [was Sources of Innovation]
>
> Glen
> See http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ and don't skip the bit that
> says "disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous
> acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind". A right isn't a
> natural consequence... but then I think you jest.
> Thanks
> Robert
>
> On 2/15/10 8:32 AM, glen e. p. ropella wrote:
> > Thus spake Nicholas Thompson circa 02/14/2010 10:49 AM:
> >
> >> Rights talk is madness.
> >>
> > That's the most true sentence I've seen on this mailing list. [grin]
> > Nobody has a right to anything. Some of us are lucky enough to be in
> > the right social classes to take advantage of particular legal systems;
> > but that's the whole extent of it. If there are any rights at all, they
> > are those provided by our biology.
> >
> > E.g. I have the right to be hungry when I don't eat. I have the right
> > to be euphoric when I hunt. I have the right to pain and death in the
> > freezing dawn in my cardboard shanty under the bridge.
> >
> > Everything else is ideology and illusion. Luckily, there are those of
> > us who are crafty enough to exploit the gullibility of those around us
> > so that our rights seem more real than theirs.
> >
> >
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu)
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe]
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Critchlow
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: 2/15/2010 10:10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Health care [was Sources of Innovation]
I think Glen was just working up a Presidents Day troll. The day we celebrate
the births of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln is the perfect day to
appear to deny that "rights" exist.
But I think he really means that their existence is problematic, and if you
scan the Wikipedia article on rights you'll see how one might come to that
conclusion.
-- rec --
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Robert J. Cordingley <rob...@cirrillian.com>
wrote:
Glen
See http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ and don't skip the bit that says
"disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which
have outraged the conscience of mankind". A right isn't a natural
consequence... but then I think you jest.
Thanks
Robert
On 2/15/10 8:32 AM, glen e. p. ropella wrote:
Thus spake Nicholas Thompson circa 02/14/2010 10:49 AM:
Rights talk is madness.
That's the most true sentence I've seen on this mailing list. [grin]
Nobody has a right to anything. Some of us are lucky enough to be in
the right social classes to take advantage of particular legal systems;
but that's the whole extent of it. If there are any rights at all, they
are those provided by our biology.
E.g. I have the right to be hungry when I don't eat. I have the right
to be euphoric when I hunt. I have the right to pain and death in the
freezing dawn in my cardboard shanty under the bridge.
Everything else is ideology and illusion. Luckily, there are those of
us who are crafty enough to exploit the gullibility of those around us
so that our rights seem more real than theirs.
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
