!!! * -- Russ *
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Douglas Roberts <d...@parrot-farm.net>wrote: > I would have thought that FRIAM had already suffiently proven that life can > exist in a toxic environment... > > --Doug > > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Robert Holmes <rob...@holmesacosta.com>wrote: > >> http://xkcd.org/829/ >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Miles Parker <milespar...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Yeah -- staying out of the name the pill controversy ;) -- one neat >>> little tidbit in the "I'm always amazed by how little I know and how little >>> I've thought about what I do know" category. We think of Arsenic as a >>> poison, but the only reason we think of it as a "poison" is (duh) that it is >>> bad for *us*, i.e. humans + every other critter that we've run into before >>> now. But the reason that it is bad is not that it is different from our >>> chemistry, like an acid, but that it is so close to our chemistry, being >>> next to phosphorous on the old periodic table, thus disrupting cellular >>> mechanisms. So while typically we think of things that are close in >>> structure or design to be friendly in fact here a movement to our nearest >>> neighbor represents a major boundary shift, while one to a distant neighbor >>> would of course be quite unlikely as the chances of slotting into the same >>> role would be very slim. That idea could certainly argue for the idea that >>> the current six element setup is arbitrary against some set of possible >>> configurations. Once a choice is made in that configuration space it would >>> be very unlikely (and only under these kind of extreme conditions) that we >>> would move off it. The fact that we can (hmm, I mean I actually probably >>> can't so please don't subject me to any experiments) anyway makes the >>> argument that "because that's the only way it works here" even more tenuous. >>> >>> >>> On Dec 2, 2010, at 9:21 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote: >>> >>> Following Glen, Roger, and James, and also wondering why Nick is being a >>> pill.... >>> >>> I believe the report is of interest for showing an organism that uses >>> arsenic in interesting ways, but it gets its magical-shininess (i.e. Science >>> worthiness) for showing an organism that does not use phosphorous. We >>> have never found a life form that could do the "life" thing without >>> phosphorous. It is almost (almost) like finding an organism that uses >>> silicon instead of carbon. >>> >>> Oh, and then there is the potential for practical application... like >>> cleaning up arsenic, which is a common pollutant coming out of mines. But >>> anything like that is a long way off. >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 08:03 PM, *Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org>* wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 4:39 PM, glen e. p. ropella < >>> g...@tempusdictum.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> [*] FWIW, I find it odd for you to ask, of this particular article, "why >>>> is this important?" Of all the obscure, mumbo-jumbo journal articles >>>> out there (our discussion of PoMo aside ;-), it seems blatantly obvious >>>> to me that the substitution of As for P in DNA is important, even if we >>>> don't know what the implications are. I am woefully ignorant of the >>>> literature, though. Is it fairly common to find and report substitutes >>>> for DNA components? >>>> >>>> No, it's not common, it's never been reported before, all DNA and RNA >>> in life as we have known it up until today has been based on phospho-esters. >>> >>> -- rec -- >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied >>> Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's >>> College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps athttp://www.friam.org >>> >>> Eric Charles >>> >>> Professional Student and >>> Assistant Professor of Psychology >>> Penn State University >>> Altoona, PA 16601 >>> >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >>> >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > > > -- > Doug Roberts > drobe...@rti.org > d...@parrot-farm.net > 505-455-7333 - Office > 505-670-8195 - Cell > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
