Interesting way to parse an 'us versus them' situation.
From my study and work with creatives, Dionysians are the classic
artist type: great ideas, spontaneous behaviour, courting risk and
adventure, off on their own and near an edge. Edges are interesting,
because change happens there, and change can be good, often better
than where one is in the moment.
Apollonians come to people like me for help to loosen up and enjoy the
unknown and find satisfaction and mastery within it. Particularly once
they've realized that ultimately - and especially now - the known is
fluctuating more wildly, and morphing into the unknown.
Dionysians will tolerate change more easily and see it as positive,
Apollonians will tolerate routine more easily and see it as positive.
Victoria
On Jun 21, 2011, at 12:03 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
"our respective lenses"
You have your Apollonians and your Dionysians; Apollonians are your
planters, your gardeners, your planners. They can defer pleasure
because,
for them, the future seems assured. Dionysians are your impulsive
types:
they grab pleasure and excitement now because the future is not
assured.
There are a LOT of Dionysians in the sfComplex. I think it's because
advanced technology is so self-undermining and ephemeral.
Opportunities
come fast and are lost in a wink. Who can really plan?
According to one complex sociobiological theory, these two
personality types
are laid down in infancy by the attachment relation. Were the
circumstances
that surrounding your primary caregiver (usually your mom) stable
enough so
that you could form a firm attachment to her? Or sufficiently
unstable,
that that attachment was in doubt. If the first, you are an
Apollonian; if
the latter a Dionysian. These two kinds of folks really cannot talk
to one
another because their assumptions about the future are so different.
One of the most alarming features of our current political discourse
in the
united states is the way in which the modern Dionysians
(libertarians, etc.)
have tried to bridge the gap between these two personalities by
asserting
the Dionysian philosophy as a form of planning for the future. Ayn
Rand;
objectivism. It's kind of the reverse of the equally horrifying
religion
thing in which people without hope (who SHOULD be Dionysians) are
recruited
for Apollonian values by getting them to believe in an after-life.
Both
versions I deplore. They are confusions. Corruptions of the two
basic
approaches to life, both of which make Darwinian sense in their pure
form.
This sort of email is what happens when you put Thompson beside his
weed-filled garden and then prevent him from doing anything about it
by
busting his knee. You probably will hear more from me in this vein.
Ugh!
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com]
On Behalf
Of Richard Harris
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:02 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Uncertainty Tax
I know we all have our respective lenses through which we view the
world and
that these lenses determine the explanations to which we are most
receptive,
but if Mr. Friedman is talking about an inability to switch house as a
reason some people aren't able to take new jobs, it would seem
appropriate
to also mention that many of the houses built during the last bubble
were at
the outer accretion layers of suburbia and not particularly close to
any
jobs. Its as if the people building these houses and the politicians
maintaining policies that support their build assumed either (1.)
oil will
always be cheap and people wont mind spending 2 hours a day in their
cars
every working day or (2.) these houses wont ultimately be paid for
by wages.
One aggravating factor of the bust a few years ago which never gets
as much
mention as obscure financial instruments or banking malfeasance
relates the
spike in oil prices in 2007 to the initial wave of defaults in these
outer
suburbs. Granted, the people moving into these marginal outer layers
were
probably the most marginal credit risks, but its conceivable that
any change
for the worse could be all the more likely to put them over the edge
and
into default.
I guess my bias is that I attribute too much to resource and energy
scarcity. When I see an explanation for either the start of our
current
troubles or why we can't see an end, I expect it to ultimately
reference
these things. Although there are a few brief mentions of energy
efficiency
as it relates to productivity gains and as a possible source for new
jobs in
construction, this is pretty paltry when you consider how world energy
production has basically flatlined, but there are many, many more
consumers
driving up its price (think of all the new cars sold in China each
day).
When I think of the U.S., I think we're almost uniquely
disadvantaged by how
spread out our cities have become in the last 60 years and how the
only
option for getting around that has been faithfully and consistently
supported and encouraged is the personal car.
On 20 Jun 2011, at 17:08, Owen Densmore wrote:
Tom Friedman's Op Ed
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/opinion/12friedman.html?
_r=1&partner
=rssnyt&emc=rss
He starts with shocking mortgage statistics, but then discusses
unemployment and its causes via this report:
http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/publications/us_jobs/index.asp
Quote: McKinsey Global Institute released a long study of the
structural issues ailing the U.S. job market, entitled: "An Economy
That Works: Job Creation and America's Future." It begins: "Only in
the most optimistic scenario will the United States return to full
employment before 2020. Achieving this outcome will require sustained
demand growth, rising U.S. competitiveness in the global economy and
better matching of U.S. workers to jobs."
Interestingly enough, they still feel education is important but
stress areas of current need.
BTW: The tech bubble folks are afraid of is likely NOT to be one.
Marc
Andreessen (admittedly a techie) has compiled P/E ratios of the new
tech market and shows them to be well under traditional values.
They'd
please any conservative investor.
Tom is concerned about the Uncertainty Tax .. our loss of production
due to fear of downturn unknowns, but ends: Any good news? Yes, U.S.
corporations are getting so productive and sitting on so much cash,
just a few big, smart, bipartisan decisions by Congress on taxes and
spending (and mortgages) and I think this whole economy starts to
improve again. Workers with skills will be the first to be hired.
-- Owen
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
