It always surprises me the extent to which people (yes! people in general) over-simplify complex things. One of my pet peeves is the conviction that religion is identical with belief or doctrine.
Most religion is an individualized convolution of belief and practice. It's not merely belief and it's not merely practice. The extent to which any individual's religion is belief vs. practice varies dramatically. So, to people like Doug, I can justifiably counter that religion is not (merely) reducible to belief or faith. And we know he already knows this by his statement that Islam was tightly woven into the fabric of western Libya. Yet, he contradicts himself almost immediately and claims that religion (yes, all religion, everywhere and everyone) requires faith. Which is it? Can religion be woven deeply into one's actions? Or not? And if not, then how deeply can a religion be woven into the actions of animals? What is the most habitual, instinctively, epigenetic(?) action into which religion can be woven? The answer is simple: some of us weave thought into our actions more than others. Some religious people hold faith more central to their religion and some hold practice as more central. I posit that those scientists who self identify as religious hold doctrine as _less_ central to their religion than practice. Interacting with the real world probably takes precedence over navel-gazing. I.e. Hanging out with their group singing songs and eating cookies is more important than the definition of God. (I'd contrast this with, say, mathematicians who self identify as religious. ;-) Anyway, this is why I chose to quote Nick's comment. ;-) Faith is just an idea ... a thought. To claim that faith always lies somewhere down there is to claim that our universe is somehow _rooted_ in or at least heavily dependent on thought. I disagree completely. I believe in zombies. I believe animals exist who either have no thoughts or in whom thought is purely epiphenomenal. These animals do not require faith at any layer. Nicholas Thompson wrote at 09/14/2012 11:31 AM: > But the problem here is not faith, itself, which always > lies somewhere down there amongst the turtles, but the rapidity to which a > shallow thinker appeals to it. -- glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
