Hi, Carl,
Nobody has bit on my hypothetical, not even you, a man I regard as less afraid of hypotheticals than most. Perhaps it's because I made an important error in describing the setup. Imagine that I am standing before you holding a flat object, such as a notebook in my left hand, flat side to you. I hold a small object in my right hand, let's say an art gum eraser, so that appears to you above and behind the plain of notebook. I release the eraser. Please give me a "plain-spoken" description of what you would see. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Carl Tollander Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:18 PM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] metaphor and talking across skill levels This may throw something (light?) on the issue. <http://cheng.staff.shef.ac.uk/morality/morality.pdf> http://cheng.staff.shef.ac.uk/morality/morality.pdf The reason I'm tossing this in may not become apparent until a ways into it, when mathematical "morality" notions are used to address abstraction. >From my own perspective, I swap in musician/composer for mathematician, but hey, I'm listening to Maria Joao Pires recordings just now. Carl On 3/10/15 10:36 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Ok Glen, > > Imagine that I am standing before you holding a flat object, such as a > notebook in my left hand, flat side to you. I hold a small object, > let's say an artgum eraser, in my right hand above and behind the > notebook. I release the eraser. Please give me a "plain-spoken" > description of what you would see. > > Thanks, > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University > <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam [ <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ep > ropella > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:31 AM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] metaphor and talking across skill levels > > On 03/09/2015 05:44 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: >> I gather that "symmetry" is itself a metaphor, subject both to the >> joys > and pains thereof. > > I suggest symmetry has a non-metaphorical definition. But I admit the > word can be successfully _abused_. ;-) > >> I never could find a plain spoken way to describe "above and below >> the > plane of the molecule" without resort to the very terms I was trying > to explain, until I thought of restaurant staff stacking six sided > tables on top of one another to facilitate cleaning. Only then did > the three dimensionality of traditional "ring diagrams" make any sense to me. > > But, see, _my_ problem is that I don't regard the concept "above and > below the plane of the molecule" to be science. That's ideological > hoo-ha bouncing around in someone's mind. The science is what's done > with the hands (and feet, nose, etc.). There is no plain spoken way > to describe concepts. There are only plain spoken ways to describe > _things_ ... real things that you can touch and leave a bruise when someone throws it at you. > > To me, metaphor doesn't seem fundamental to science because science is > about what you _do_, not what you think. It's way more scientific to > talk about stacking tables than it is to talk about "above and below the molecule". > > -- > glen e. p. ropella, 971-255-2847, <http://tempusdictum.com> http://tempusdictum.com > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College to unsubscribe > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College to unsubscribe > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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