Damn Nick!
That is one enormously disarming and persuasive argument! Good luck
with your distraction... I have a small clutch of freshly fledged Ravens
in my trees acting up right about now... they made me think of you (and
your interests, not your nature)!
Most if not all of you will be relieved that I just composed and deleted
(relieved at the last part) a longwinded response to Marcus' original
contribution.
The only thing I was motivated to rescue from that diatribe is the
following tangent off of Marcus' own tangent:
Marcus.. who is looking forward to an introverted president and not a
narcissist. They are not the same thing.
I hope you aren't planning on holding your breath on this one? Neither
of the Duopoly candidates comes close on either count as far as I can
tell. I give both Gary and Jill lower points on the narcissist scale
than the first two, but that may only be because they haven't had the
microphone or the limelight for long enough yet? Are any of them
introverted? It has been suggested that Nixon and Coolidge were the
only card carrying introverts with Jefferson and Madison being
functionally introverted because of there extreme scholarly nature.
Adams (senior, not JQ) also gets a nod. The rest are pretty likely not
particularly introverted. It doesn't seem to fit the nature of
becoming a candidate for and then securing the office?
Pew did their own study of the level of Narcissism in the Oval Office:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/11/14/the-most-narcissistic-u-s-presidents/
suggesting that US presidents were more narcissistic than the average
American. Guess where some of your favorite love-to-hate and
love-to-love figures land on that scale?
I appreciate your distinction between Introvert and Narcissist.
In an article from Psychology Today, it is pointed out that not all
introverts are narcissists, but when they are:
// they/"may have a way of influencing others around them to feel
off-balance and/or insecure."
/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/communication-success/201601/7-signs-covert-introvert-narcissist
Steve
On 8/1/16 4:08 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
Dear Friammers,
As often happens, this list again throws up an interesting thread just when I
am trying to concentrate on something else, and so cannot properly
participate. This thread is about communication, which I spent my career
studying, and communication in writing, in particular, which I spent my career
doing. It raises for me the fascinating question about the force of talking
about the self as a way of communicating universal understanding. This
technique is the hall mark of the E.B. White essay, which often begins with
some scene observed from a sharply personal point of view, but reaches out
rapidly to the [hypothetical] reader's experience. The writer of an E.B.White
essay always skates on the edge of narcissism because s/he assumes that his own
experience is the same as that of everybody else. That error, the egocentric
fallacy, is the deep core of narcissism. And yet, when done well, such essays
can be enormously disarming and persuasive.
I cannot say more at the moment, but do want to thank you for airing this, and
hope you continue.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2016 4:29 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Narcissism and Mass Shootings
I don't think a reader should be forced to choose between (1) or (2), but I
would prefer that the writer be aware enough to refer to context rather than
restating it as if it were their invention. How is this agent different than
the environment which the reader is already equipped to assess? The
pseudo-profound bullshit is debatable, but reasonable people know it is. It's
just a placeholder (in spite of the Portlandians) to get on to more interesting
unique details -- the stuff not in the compression dictionaries that represent
the prevailing culture.
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ?
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2016 2:00 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Narcissism and Mass Shootings
Well, sure, competence in communication involves both abilities: 1) to compress/abstract
out detail so as to state your point clearly and 2) to place such a point inside a use
case, a narrative. And although I think of abstraction as one of my skills (at least I
tend to do it all the time, perhaps badly), I'm wary of the inscribed _bias_ that comes
with pre-[compressed|abstracted] morals-of-the-story. This is, I think, why that paper
on "pseudo-profound bullshit" was interesting. Any compression of someone's
experience will be very helpful _if_ accompanied by the very boring type of facts of
interest to a private investigator. But all compressions of someone's experience are
merely pseudo-profound bullshit in the _absence_ of those tedious details. If forced to
choose between (1) xor (2), I much prefer (2).
This is pretty much the only reason I'm willing to vote for Clinton. (willing
but not yet decided... I may still go for Stein or Johnson ... or maybe
Cthulhu: https://cthulhuforamerica.com/) She's a bit of a wonk, much less
capable of the vacuous, warm and fuzzy platitudes Obama gives us, but much more
credible sounding than Trump because she articulates (at least some of) the
details.
On 08/01/2016 10:12 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
One may or may not find this distasteful, depending on the situation, but my real
complaint is not with the exploiters, it is with the tendency of people to seek and
expect relationships but without offering any "terse and present context-less"
analysis of their experience. Write a novel, paint a picture. Capture the concept
to express somehow so that individuals can exchange information in the space of ideas and
not in the space of (all of our) tedious and highly-replicated personal problems.
Marcus.. who is looking forward to an introverted president and not a
narcissist. They are not the same thing.
--
☢ glen
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