Welp, just sitting around shaking my head this morning, think I'll take out the trash.
-- rec -- On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 6:38 AM, Steven A Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: > Marcus - > > It would appear that your fears were more founded than I could have > imagined. > > It would also seem that I was standing in the wrong lane staring down the > headlights (again). > <schmeeeaarrrrrr!> > > Small solace, but I am pretty sure Gary took more Trump votes in every > case than Jill took Hillary ones, if that is not an oversimplification. If > there were any spoilers, it was probably in States where Gary split the > vote on Trump, giving it to Hillary. > > To me, there is a paradox in the apparent fact that Populism seems to > always support or lead to Fascism. And now "here we go!" > > <<What I hear pretty exclusively is "I won't vote for them because nobody > else is voting for them" or maybe even more pointedly "I won't listen to > them because nobody else is listening to them".>> > I have been far more afraid of a major regression to our democracy than > any compulsion to pursue the kind of progressive efforts I would try to > advance. I don't think my fear was misplaced. I take some comfort that > I was not alone in this. Kind of like that feeling after 9/11 that minor > disagreements were silly and irrelevant. Will have to find a way to > navigate all this. Sigh. > Marcus > ------------------------------ > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on > behalf of Steven A Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> <sasm...@swcp.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 8, 2016 5:16:56 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind > Clinton | FiveThirtyEight > > > Glen - > > I appreciate the nuance here. > > I have been dealing with crypto-fascists all of my life... we have > discussed the libertarian vs the Libertarian, I have endured the years > where Lefty political correctness was approaching fascism and I have had to > endure the Righty style fascism that seems to be hitting a crescendo under > the rallying cry of that "man-child" running for president. > > I isolate myself enough in daily life so as NOT to have to spend too many > cycles on this constant interpretation, for those who do not have that > luxury, I understand that this can be deeply painful to the psyche if not > the soul. > > I refer you to the musical observations of the philosophers known as "They > Might be Giants": > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow-nuHCTA5E > > Unfortunately, *I* believe that the language we use in our communication > deeply informs the language we use to think... and that by adjusting our > discourse with others can lead us to think (for better or worse) > differently. I believe that the damage being done to our culture today is > as much the way our thinking is modified by this presidential race as it is > the possible outcomes. We are leading ourselves to believe that our only > two choices are to become a xenophobic, retrograde, bigoted people or to > continue with a status quo which is clearly not serving many, many people > very well. > > While I don't completely agree with or support Jill and the Greens, I DO > appreciate the alternative rhetoric they have offered. Her *very* low > polling indicates to me that either *many* of us really aren't willing to > think outside of one of the two boxes offered to us, OR, there is something > specifically wrong with their message that *I* am not getting? > > What I hear pretty exclusively is "I won't vote for them because nobody > else is voting for them" or maybe even more pointedly "I won't listen to > them because nobody else is listening to them". > > - Steve > > > > On 11/8/16 8:25 AM, ┣glen┫ wrote: > > Right. It's not quite right to suggest that switching codes is bimodal or > bivalent. I think it's more of a spectrum, at least in an informal sense. > If we were talking about a person trying to communicate a complex idea in a > non-native language then switching to their native language, that would be > more bimodal. But I'm talking more about, eg, realizing in the middle of a > conversation that you're talking to a crypto-fascist who puts up a good > veneer at first, then reveals their fascism over the course of the > conversation. When I realize it, I switch, either to something that will > completely alienate the person, or to language that makes me sound more like > a fascist, depending on how I feel at the time. > > Marcus' idea of a an interpreter vs. languages closer to the bare metal is, I > think, akin to Nick's idea of imaginary vs. factual. And the gist is solid. > There's a very high overhead interpreting through many layers of abstraction > or entertaining imaginary worlds through the suspension of disbelief. It's a > luxury we can't always afford. But both assume there exists a bare metal. > I'm a constructivist, for the most part, and believe all our languages are > interpreted and there really is no such thing as a natural, close to the > metal, machine code. There are no linguistic or cognitive facts, only action > facts. And this may be closer to what you're trying to say, because that > means that we are always interacting through an interpreter, albeit sometimes > many layers out vs. only a few layers out. > > > > On 11/07/2016 08:05 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > > I guess I already feel I have to "code switch" all the time already... I > have to speak a pidgin of Left/Right/Green/Libertarian/Anarchist just to > communicate with my friends and colleagues on these matters. I understand > and agree that in world D, the emergent patois will be much less > familiar/comfortable than the one I have now and that in world H, it will be > much more familiar, less abrupt of a change. I guess I assumed that Agent G > and agent M were more like me in this regard than maybe they are. > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
