Frank -
I like Jochen's contrast (literal/serious vs serious/literal) and was
mildly shocked he would ask the question so boldly here. I don't mind,
but have felt that everyone was avoiding any discussion outside of my
lame attempts to get a discussion about the election framed within the
more theoretical context of social choice theory and Arrow's algorithm, etc.
I do know we have had some modest right-wing voices here in the past, I
haven't heard them in a while, maybe they were driven away or
underground? I understand that this forum is not intended to be overtly
political but agree with your assessment that we are probably
collectively much bluer than red. I'm surprised we don't have a more
vocal/overt Green tinge? Maybe it is the age/academic dimensions of our
collective feature space?
I think at least Glen and I represent something "completely different"
(from the group and from one another). I couldn't be characterized as
pro-Clinton except by the most abstract measures. Or more to the point
because I was (and am) staunchly anti-Trump/Republican. I see that
while I was composing this (over the course of a day) that DaveW
weighted in with his own non-red/blue tribute.
I do so love to bust the chops of my pro-Trump friends by greeting them
the first time after the election with something like: "I am SO relieved
that we didn't elect another /hawkish, elite, bourgeoisie /Clinton!";
followed by a nice pregnant pause and then: "The only thing worse than
that was having that /narcissistic, xenophobic, misogynistic, loony 1%/
Trump, elected as the hero of the proletariat class!" and "he's YOUR
boy, I'm going to ride you hard every time he *does* show those traits
and depend on YOU to reign him in or throw him under a bus if/when/as he
becomes truly dangerous to this country and the world".
I don't know how things got so upside down/inside out, but I am very
happy (proud) to hold a strong socially conscious perspective which in
my opinion does not require big government (the old tax-n-spend liberal
jab). It ain't the Republicans, the NeoCons, the Tea Party, the
Birthers, the Alt.Right NOR the Democrats (NeoLibs?) nor the
Libertarians. The Greens are as close to a formal, organized group as
I can see. Bernie was at the very least "a good start" from my
perspective. I
like DaveW's suggestion of the possibility that this is a fertile
ground for "consensus building via dialog"... but it IS a bit
forebidding/boding with so many Trumpians *appearing* to demand that the
anti-Trumpians "STFU" on th principle (in his OrangeNess's own words)
that there was a "Landslide" in his favor. Just as there was nothing
at all like a "mandate" for Herr Bush in 2000, there is NO landslide.
That is simply Orwellian, bombastic rhetoric. So *I* do engage my
"Trumpian" friends as best I can, though, the more
informed/eloquent/thoughtful of them seem a bit embarassed at their
"win"... as if they understand the curse "be careful what you ask for"!
*I* asked for Hillary NOT to win (by a landslide anyway) and sure enough
my prayers were granted... and I am in a WTF moment, myself.
I voted for Jill/Green in spite of a raucous roar of "a vote for Jill is
a vote for Trump!", trusting that this state was blue enough to keep
Trump out of OUR electoral college seats. Given the context and the
lesser of evils principles I would have voted Blue reluctantly to block
Red, but was exquisitely thankful to have Green as an option. I don't
know what color Gary is, some strange shade of purple? I support his
basic platform of personal liberties but don't really care for anything
pro-business any more. His strength in NM was also a good opportunity
to vote Green... I'm sure he "spoiled" more Red votes than Blue ones.
As for Jochen's original question: "Will Trump make America great
again?"... geeze! I hope not! His vision of greatness is to be a
"great bully" on the world stage. Whether it is military or economic
or pop-culture leadership (dominance) he *might* bring us, I don't want
that. I can see a few silver linings in the grey cloud that he is:
1. I'm not sure he (or his circle of crony-advisors) are competent
enough to achieve what they seek. I think they will fail from a
"reach exceeds grasp" error. But they will make big messes in the
meantime.
2. I do think we were way overdue for a shakeup in our political
parties/factions/lines-drawn... this represents that. He has
either completely crashed the Republican party or confronted it to
re-assemble with a radically new fundamental nature (or so I
hope). I'm not sure what will happen with the Dems... Bernie's
rally to "rebuild the Democratic party" seems like a bit too mild
for me... I'd rather see the Greens fill their niche and absorb most
of their momentum.
3. Things sometimes have to get worse before they get better. Maybe
Trumps abrupt shift of all the cannonry and the below-decks freight
to one side of the ship will wake us up and cause us to consider the
implications of this new listing and take it seriously enough to try
to adjust the full load, not just shift the superficial stuff around
(aka deck chairs?).
Friam was overwhelmingly pro Clinton and Santa Fe strongly pro
Clinton. She won in New Mexico. I am sure I will be corrected if
necessary.
Frank
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
