I'm more on the "given that 'common understandings' itself can be fraught, given a that 'deep linguistic structure' may be problematic (ie not so fruitful as we may hope), let's figure out what can you do now" sort of frame of mind.
For example, Sabine might talk about issues with "emergent gravity", and that conversation is more interesting in that it has a different take on "emergence" than I had expected than that it is about current issues in physics. Nonetheless, that conversation is more phenomenological, ie "what experiments can we do next" to resolve what we're talking about. Carl On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Well, I espouse it. I might be the only one, but I am in. > > > > I admit to believing that bad things happen in chaos. I admit that the > historical record is kind of mixed on that point. “Switzerland … peace…. > The cuckoo clock, etc.” But I am willing to talk to anybody who disagrees > with me so long as they share my conviction that the effort to achieve a > common understanding is fruitful. That may be just pure ideology with me, > but it’s my ideology and I am sticking with it. > > > > Let the discussions begin! > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Prof > David West > *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2016 5:01 PM > *To:* friam@redfish.com > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Divided America > > > > Nick, > > > > The mother church does have one "trumper" — in the sense that I believe he > is a potential antidote for a whole series of toxic trends in the body > politic and a rude (but decidedly earned) "f... you" directed towards a > specific cultural elite, epitomized by Mrs. Clinton, her Democratic Party > and its fellow travelers, the leadership of the Republican Party > (especially those wrapped in the mantle of fundamentalist religion), and > the current government as a body (there are obviously individual members of > all branches of the government who would be exempt from this blanket > contempt). > > > > If I did not vote for Trump it was only because I will never vote for > either Democrat or Republican; to me it would be an act of collusion. > > > > The schadenfreude you observe comes from two sources: first a kind of > gloating, I have consistently said, since January, that Trump would win and > told everyone exactly why; second, I find the hysteria (and hypocrisy) of > the 'losers' extremely amusing. > > > > Clearly there are many who are frightened at the prospect of a Trump > administration. I sympathize, but would suggest that those fears arise from > a woefully incomplete understanding of the forces — the people who comprise > the core and majority of his support and their values — that made Trump > possible. Further, perhaps it would be useful to determine the degree to > which fear of "unruly elements" is a function of ethnocentrism — believing > that your 'culture' is the only one capable of intelligent, civic and civil > behavior. > > > > America is not "divided" it is fractured. In no small part this is a > direct result of the Democratic strategy for the last 2-3 decades of > fostering "identity politics" coupled with the hijacking of the "right" by > the "religious." What is to be feared, if anything, are the inevitable > consequences that will come from ossification of "identities" and the > elimination of communication across and among them. > > > > I might suggest that the current politi-cultural climate provides the > perfect experimental ground to explore the possibilities of the Peircian / > pragmatic philosophy of "consensus building via dialog" I have heard > espoused at FRIAM. > > > > davew > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > > Dear Jochen, > > > > Thanks for writing. Frank is correct, I think, about the general tenor > of FRIAM. I don’t know about the diaspora, but at the meeting of the > “Mother Church” I thought we had at least one trumper, but it turned out > his allegiance was only *per argumentum.* > > > > I am pretty frightened. I think if we all hunker down and if Putin and > Trump don’t obliterate us all in a lover’s spat, we can survive the next > four years without too much damage. But that’s a big “if”! What I fear > most is that “unruly elements” will take to violence, and in the ensuing > chaos, the democracy will fall to authoritarianism. I also fear that > nations abroad will not be able to see the long arc of history here and > will abandon us to our fate, too soon. So, I guess I am asking that those > of you in the friam diaspora give us what moral support you can and that we > all learn to resist in ways that are effective but will not cause the > pendulum to begin swinging even more wildly. > > > > Thanks again for writing. > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com > <friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly > *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2016 7:44 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Divided America > > > > Friam was overwhelmingly pro Clinton and Santa Fe strongly pro Clinton. > She won in New Mexico. I am sure I will be corrected if necessary. > > > > Frank > > Frank Wimberly > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > > > On Dec 4, 2016 5:28 AM, "Jochen Fromm" <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: > > In Europe people are shocked about the results of the American > presidential election. What is your opinion in NM, will the new president > Trump make America great again or will he lead America into some form of > cronyism, nepotism, fascism or even totalitarianism? American itself seems > to be deeply divided > > https://public.tableau.com/views/USvsTHEM/USvs_THEM?:showVizHome=no > > > > His supporters take him seriously but not literally, while his opponents > take him literally bit not seriously. I guess the FRIAM group is divided > too between those who take Trump seriously and hope he will make their > situation better, and those who take him literally and hope he will fail. > Which side is the majority? > > http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/ > trump-makes-his-case-in-pittsburgh/501335/ > > > > -Jochen > > > > Sent from my Tricorder. > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
