Before the thread leaves games for consciousness ... A couple of years back, World of Warcraft passed the 1 billion player hour mark. That is just one game. A survey somewhere around that time claimed that self identified gamers averaged 30+ hours a week engaged in games. The low end of the curve was 20 hours a week (if you did not play that much, I guess you did not consider yourself a gamer) and the high end was well over 100 hours a week.
The question of the day (then): why do people spend enjoy games so much more than real life and especially work life? There was a 'movement', under the umbrella label of "gamification" to apply ideas/principles supposedly gleamed from analysis of why games were so compelling and apply those ideas to education and work in specific, but also life in general. I have half-dozen or so books on this subject and will look them up if anyone is interested. davew On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > My point was that the cost to probe some memory address is low. And > all there is, is I/O and memory. > > It does become difficult to track thousands of addresses at once: > Think of a debugger that has millions of watchpoints. However, one > could have diagnostics compiled in to the code to check invariants from > time to time. I don't know why Nick says there is no privilege. > There can be complete privilege. Extracting meaning from that access > is rarely easy, of course. Just as debugging any given problem can be > hard. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 3:20 PM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking > > Literal self-awareness is possible. The flaw in your argument is that > "self" is ambiguous in the way you're using it. It's not ambiguous in > the way me or Marcus intend it. You can see this nicely if you elide > "know" from your argument. We know nothing. The machine knows nothing. > Just don't use the word "know" or the concept it references. There > need not be a model involved, either, only sensors and things to be > sensed. > > Self-sensing means there is a feedback loop between the sensor and the > thing it senses. So, the sensor measures the sensed and the sensed > measures the sensor. That is self-awareness. There's no need for any of > the psychological hooha you often object to. There's no need for > privileged information *except* that there has to be a loop. If > anything is privileged, it's the causal loop. > > The real trick is composing multiple self-self loops into something > resembling what we call a conscious agent. We can get to the uncanny > valley with regular old self-sensing control theory and robotics. > Getting beyond the valley is difficult: https://youtu.be/D8_VmWWRJgE A > similar demonstration is here: https://youtu.be/7ncDPoa_n-8 > > > > On 11/1/21 2:08 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: >> In fact, strictly speaking, I think literal self-awareness is impossible. >> Because, whatever a machine knows about itself, it is a MODEL of itself >> based on well situated sensors of its own activities, just like you are and >> I am. There is no privileged access, just bettah or wussah access. > > -- > "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie." > ☤>$ uǝlƃ > > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
