I really don’t get it. I appreciate the achievement of modern games with the professional artists, the physics engines, etc. but I just can’t imagine spending a minute of time on it. I know people that do, and it is bewildering to me what could possibly be wrong with them! Work for no reason.
> On Nov 2, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm> wrote: > > Before the thread leaves games for consciousness ... > > A couple of years back, World of Warcraft passed the 1 billion player hour > mark. That is just one game. A survey somewhere around that time claimed > that self identified gamers averaged 30+ hours a week engaged in games. The > low end of the curve was 20 hours a week (if you did not play that much, I > guess you did not consider yourself a gamer) and the high end was well over > 100 hours a week. > > The question of the day (then): why do people spend enjoy games so much more > than real life and especially work life? There was a 'movement', under the > umbrella label of "gamification" to apply ideas/principles supposedly gleamed > from analysis of why games were so compelling and apply those ideas to > education and work in specific, but also life in general. > > I have half-dozen or so books on this subject and will look them up if anyone > is interested. > > davew > > >> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> My point was that the cost to probe some memory address is low. And >> all there is, is I/O and memory. >> >> It does become difficult to track thousands of addresses at once: >> Think of a debugger that has millions of watchpoints. However, one >> could have diagnostics compiled in to the code to check invariants from >> time to time. I don't know why Nick says there is no privilege. >> There can be complete privilege. Extracting meaning from that access >> is rarely easy, of course. Just as debugging any given problem can be >> hard. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >> Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 3:20 PM >> To: friam@redfish.com >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking >> >> Literal self-awareness is possible. The flaw in your argument is that >> "self" is ambiguous in the way you're using it. It's not ambiguous in >> the way me or Marcus intend it. You can see this nicely if you elide >> "know" from your argument. We know nothing. The machine knows nothing. >> Just don't use the word "know" or the concept it references. There >> need not be a model involved, either, only sensors and things to be >> sensed. >> >> Self-sensing means there is a feedback loop between the sensor and the >> thing it senses. So, the sensor measures the sensed and the sensed >> measures the sensor. That is self-awareness. There's no need for any of >> the psychological hooha you often object to. There's no need for >> privileged information *except* that there has to be a loop. If >> anything is privileged, it's the causal loop. >> >> The real trick is composing multiple self-self loops into something >> resembling what we call a conscious agent. We can get to the uncanny >> valley with regular old self-sensing control theory and robotics. >> Getting beyond the valley is difficult: https://youtu.be/D8_VmWWRJgE A >> similar demonstration is here: https://youtu.be/7ncDPoa_n-8 >> >> >> >>> On 11/1/21 2:08 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: >>> In fact, strictly speaking, I think literal self-awareness is impossible. >>> Because, whatever a machine knows about itself, it is a MODEL of itself >>> based on well situated sensors of its own activities, just like you are and >>> I am. There is no privileged access, just bettah or wussah access. >> >> -- >> "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie." >> ☤>$ uǝlƃ >> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . 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