>From a consciousness perspective, what (so-far) cannot be encoded digitally by a robot are qualia. A robot can encode light frequencies, but not, for example, what red looks like. I can't think of a way to put what-red-looks-like into words. From a subjective experience perspective, it seems like a sort of primitive. How would you do it? What words would you use to express what red looks like?
-- Russ Abbott Professor Emeritus, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 12:13 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > Which of this cannot be encoded digitally by a robot? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2024 12:12 PM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Writing and Civilization and AI, oh my! > > I agree with one small caveat. Artifacts; tangible, written, stigmergic, > ... are but a small part of what is "cooperatively constructed and > kneaded." The vast majority of what an individual "knows" and the vast > majority of what the 'collective' "knows" is tacit, 'in-the-mind' and > transmitted orally and/or by non-formal means. > > davew > > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2024, at 12:18 PM, glen wrote: > > Similarly, but a bit larger in scope, humans (and other animals) are > > merely small parts of a larger system. The extent to which any one > > person actually knows anything (much less is wise about anything) is > > negligible, on the same order as that which a chimpanzee knows or is > > wise about something. What's *valuable*, worth preserving, are the > > cooperatively constructed and kneaded stigmergic cultural artifacts. > > > > But unlike Plato's straw man, suggesting the artifacts are somehow > > fixed and repetitive, what's interesting about them is a) their > > re-interpretation through successive generations and b) the > > derivations spawned from them. Decay and derivation are more > > informative than preservation. No single artifact (including flora and > > fauna, knowledge or wisdom) matters. What matters is the milieu, > > co-mediated by artifacts like math and painting. > > > > On 7/26/24 09:14, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >> *< *Particularly galling to me is the deprecation and dismissal of > >> any human knowledge, wisdom, experience ... that cannot be reduced to > >> mere words and abstract symbols. The epitome of this is the conceit > >> that AI—which is nothing more than the algorithmic manipulation of > >> abstract meaningless tokens is somehow "equivalent" to human > >> intelligence.> > >> > >> The conceit of humans, thinking their low energy, low frequency, lossy > biochemical system can compete with tens of thousands of 80 > billion-transistor GPUs each running a billion operations a second. > > > > > > -- > > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ > > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: 5/2017 thru present > > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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