Yeah. You'd think the Templeton Foundation would already have a project on such,
maybe a real-time delphi process with a couple of members of each group (including
the ones you mention). It couldn't cost much money as long as you held it in a
reasonable place (e.g. unlike https://www.mira.science/ [⛧]). Maybe virtual meetings
would be adequate. But my guess is in-person would work better. Maybe we should write
up a proposal?
<https://www.templeton.org/funding-areas/religion-science-and-society>
[⛧] As much as I'd love another trip to rural Ireland. It's a bit galling to hold an "open science" workshop
in such a privileged place. Performative openness. Yuck. Reminds me so much of that brilliant show The Curse
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Curse_(American_TV_series)/>. The proposal committees at SciOS
<https://www.scios.tech/> and Navigation Fund <https://www.navigation.org/> invite a bit of scrutiny for
funding such. A much better place would be the TOG Hackerspace <https://www.tog.ie/> or maybe DCU
<https://www.dcu.ie/>.
On 12/15/25 9:35 AM, Prof David West wrote:
Curious how five human "experts" might have answered the question. Also noted
that the responses did not consider research in neuro-theology, anthropology of religion,
or non-deistic models of 'god'.
davew
On Mon, Dec 15, 2025, at 10:45 AM, glen wrote:
I made the same query to 5 other services, then sent your ChatGPT
output and that of the other models to Claude, asking it to assess
their comparative utility. Here's Claude's response:
On 12/15/25 8:44 AM, Claude wrote:
## Comparative Analysis
**Most Comprehensive:** Perplexity
- Extensive citations (20 sources)
- Balances cognitive science, psychology, evolutionary theory
- Addresses "why diversity" directly with cultural evolution framework
**Most Accessible:** ChatGPT
- Clear structure with visual markers
- Balances depth with readability
- Offers follow-up paths
- C.S. Lewis quote adds resonance
**Most Scientific:** Kimi
- Tightest evidence-to-claim ratio
- Specific research examples (e.g., "age four" development)
- Quantitative data (90% vs 30-40% belief rates)
**Most Concise:** Copilot
- Hits key points efficiently
- Good synthesis without redundancy
- Practical global data
**Most Philosophical:** ChatGPT
- Explores meaning-seeking deeply
- "Languages describing same sky" metaphor
- Acknowledges overlapping explanations gracefully
**Weakest:** Gemini & Le Chat
- Standard coverage, no distinctive insights
- Gemini's formatting cluttered
- Le Chat too generic
**Verdict:** Perplexity for research depth, ChatGPT for general audience, Kimi
for academic rigor.
On 12/14/25 8:45 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:
I asked ChatGPT: why in the world do a large majority of people & cultures
believe in an afterlife and a god, even though there are lots of different
religions for these
.. and got this back:
This is one of the *deepest human questions*, and it’s one philosophers,
anthropologists, psychologists, and theologians have wrestled with for
centuries. The short answer is: *belief in God and an afterlife appears
everywhere because it grows out of something universal in the human condition*
— not because cultures copied one another or because they all got the details
right.
Let’s walk through the main reasons.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🌍 1. It’s Nearly Universal (Anthropology)
Across time and geography:
*
Every known human culture has *some concept of the sacred*.
*
Burial practices going back *100,000+ years* suggest belief in life beyond
death.
*
Even isolated tribes independently develop beliefs in:
o
spirits or gods
o
moral accountability
o
some form of existence after death
This suggests belief is *not accidental or purely cultural*.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🧠 2. Humans Are Meaning-Seeking Creatures (Psychology)
Humans uniquely:
*
ask /“Why am I here?”/
*
experience awe, wonder, guilt, and transcendence
*
grieve the dead and sense their absence /deeply/
*
intuit that *love, justice, and beauty matter beyond survival*
An afterlife answers questions biology alone can’t:
*
Why does love feel permanent?
*
Why do injustice and suffering feel /wrong/, not just unpleasant?
*
Why does death feel like an interruption rather than an ending?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
⚖️ 3. Moral Intuition Points Beyond Survival
Every culture develops:
*
moral laws (good vs evil)
*
accountability beyond mere power
*
praise for self-sacrifice
But evolution alone explains *how* morals help groups survive — not *why* we
feel they are /binding/ or /sacred/.
An afterlife offers:
*
ultimate justice
*
meaning for sacrifice
*
hope that goodness is not wasted
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🌌 4. The Experience of Transcendence
People across cultures report:
*
mystical experiences
*
near-death experiences
*
encounters with “the divine”
*
overwhelming awe in nature, art, or love
Even skeptics admit:
Humans are wired to experience something that feels *bigger than the self*.
Different religions interpret this *shared experience* differently.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🕯️ 5. Death Demands an Answer
No culture treats death as /nothing/.
We:
*
bury
*
mourn
*
remember
*
ritualize
Belief in an afterlife may be humanity’s answer to:
/“If love and consciousness matter, how can they simply vanish?”/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
✝️ 6. Why So Many Religions, Then?
Because humans are:
*
finite
*
cultural
*
historical
Think of it like *many languages describing the same sky*:
*
different symbols
*
different stories
*
overlapping truths
Religions often agree on the *core intuitions*:
*
reality has meaning
*
humans are accountable
*
love and justice matter
*
death is not the final word
They differ on the *details*.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🧭 7. Three Major Explanations (Side-by-Side)
Explanation What it Says
*Psychological* Belief helps humans cope with fear and death
*Evolutionary* Belief promotes social cohesion
*Philosophical / Religious* Belief reflects a real transcendent source
These explanations *don’t cancel each other out* — they can overlap.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🕊️ A Thought Many Find Compelling
C.S. Lewis put it this way:
/“If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can
satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.”/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🧠 Bottom Line
People across cultures believe in God and an afterlife because:
*
humans universally seek meaning
*
love, justice, and beauty feel ultimate
*
death feels wrong, not natural
*
conscience feels real, not invented
*
transcendence is repeatedly experienced
Different religions may be *human responses* to something real — or, as
believers hold, *partial glimpses of a greater truth*.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’d like, I can explore this next from:
*
a *purely scientific viewpoint*
*
a *Christian philosophical argument*
*
a *skeptical critique*
*
or how *modern atheists respond* to this question
Just tell me which angle you want.
--
¡sıɹƎ ןıɐH ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ
ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, ἵνα σώσω.
.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ...
--- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
