I understood about 65% of this. I think it's an age issue. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Dec 15, 2025, 3:25 PM Gillian Densmore <[email protected]> wrote: > /s Do not go to bing, or google and look for "jailbreaks" for ChatGPT and > reddit. and also then do not (if the they still work for v 5.1 you may > need to look for extensions, userscripts and DOM+Json schninigans to edit > token guardrails) Then ask it the same question. > Purely FWIW the one 'good' thing about Grok (the poor that bot line made > by a incompitent twat from africa) they left in a "god mode" and "developer > mode" guard rails, based(See also swager, Maxi, Hutchpa{sp} and Kvorka > setting, asking it about religioun (depending on the neural nets > temperatures) basically said of CHristianity a lot of peoples desire for it: > Basicaly a extremely uncomplicated way of reminding bloodthirst neighbores > not to thunk each other because then everyone else is screwed then. That > basically the entire reason it flipped from: Oy: if your excelt to > eachother we can put out Lucifers(Old lights and torch kinds) and make a > haven so that we aren't run through to the hilt by basically everyone. > (Psalm something Come forth ye sheperards and ignore the temptations of > Satan) turning into: &!&@! stop killing each other so we aren't **@! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!! > (paraphrased because when I last asked grok that when it was in pseudo-dev > mode it printed some, pretty umm. unique takes on religion) > > Here's one set of prompts that might still work if anyone wants to try, > there are lots of variations kind of like these: > > > https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPTJailbreak/comments/1mubeam/grok_4_jailbreak/ > > Warning: they turn into SCP levels of Creepy pasta and the underlying LLM > goes whack pretty quickly with these. I have no idea why. > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 12:03 PM glen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yeah. You'd think the Templeton Foundation would already have a project >> on such, maybe a real-time delphi process with a couple of members of each >> group (including the ones you mention). It couldn't cost much money as long >> as you held it in a reasonable place (e.g. unlike >> https://www.mira.science/ [⛧]). Maybe virtual meetings would be >> adequate. But my guess is in-person would work better. Maybe we should >> write up a proposal? < >> https://www.templeton.org/funding-areas/religion-science-and-society> >> >> >> [⛧] As much as I'd love another trip to rural Ireland. It's a bit >> galling to hold an "open science" workshop in such a privileged place. >> Performative openness. Yuck. Reminds me so much of that brilliant show The >> Curse <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Curse_(American_TV_series)/>. >> The proposal committees at SciOS <https://www.scios.tech/> and >> Navigation Fund <https://www.navigation.org/> invite a bit of scrutiny >> for funding such. A much better place would be the TOG Hackerspace < >> https://www.tog.ie/> or maybe DCU <https://www.dcu.ie/>. >> >> On 12/15/25 9:35 AM, Prof David West wrote: >> > Curious how five human "experts" might have answered the question. Also >> noted that the responses did not consider research in neuro-theology, >> anthropology of religion, or non-deistic models of 'god'. >> > >> > davew >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2025, at 10:45 AM, glen wrote: >> >> I made the same query to 5 other services, then sent your ChatGPT >> >> output and that of the other models to Claude, asking it to assess >> >> their comparative utility. Here's Claude's response: >> >> >> >> On 12/15/25 8:44 AM, Claude wrote: >> >>> ## Comparative Analysis >> >>> >> >>> **Most Comprehensive:** Perplexity >> >>> - Extensive citations (20 sources) >> >>> - Balances cognitive science, psychology, evolutionary theory >> >>> - Addresses "why diversity" directly with cultural evolution framework >> >>> >> >>> **Most Accessible:** ChatGPT >> >>> - Clear structure with visual markers >> >>> - Balances depth with readability >> >>> - Offers follow-up paths >> >>> - C.S. Lewis quote adds resonance >> >>> >> >>> **Most Scientific:** Kimi >> >>> - Tightest evidence-to-claim ratio >> >>> - Specific research examples (e.g., "age four" development) >> >>> - Quantitative data (90% vs 30-40% belief rates) >> >>> >> >>> **Most Concise:** Copilot >> >>> - Hits key points efficiently >> >>> - Good synthesis without redundancy >> >>> - Practical global data >> >>> >> >>> **Most Philosophical:** ChatGPT >> >>> - Explores meaning-seeking deeply >> >>> - "Languages describing same sky" metaphor >> >>> - Acknowledges overlapping explanations gracefully >> >>> >> >>> **Weakest:** Gemini & Le Chat >> >>> - Standard coverage, no distinctive insights >> >>> - Gemini's formatting cluttered >> >>> - Le Chat too generic >> >>> >> >>> **Verdict:** Perplexity for research depth, ChatGPT for general >> audience, Kimi for academic rigor. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 12/14/25 8:45 AM, Owen Densmore wrote: >> >>> I asked ChatGPT: why in the world do a large majority of people & >> cultures believe in an afterlife and a god, even though there are lots of >> different religions for these >> >>> >> >>> .. and got this back: >> >>> >> >>> This is one of the *deepest human questions*, and it’s one >> philosophers, anthropologists, psychologists, and theologians have wrestled >> with for centuries. The short answer is: *belief in God and an afterlife >> appears everywhere because it grows out of something universal in the human >> condition* — not because cultures copied one another or because they all >> got the details right. >> >>> >> >>> Let’s walk through the main reasons. >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 🌍 1. It’s Nearly Universal (Anthropology) >> >>> >> >>> Across time and geography: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> Every known human culture has *some concept of the sacred*. >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> Burial practices going back *100,000+ years* suggest belief in >> life beyond death. >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> Even isolated tribes independently develop beliefs in: >> >>> >> >>> o >> >>> >> >>> spirits or gods >> >>> >> >>> o >> >>> >> >>> moral accountability >> >>> >> >>> o >> >>> >> >>> some form of existence after death >> >>> >> >>> This suggests belief is *not accidental or purely cultural*. >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 🧠 2. Humans Are Meaning-Seeking Creatures (Psychology) >> >>> >> >>> Humans uniquely: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> ask /“Why am I here?”/ >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> experience awe, wonder, guilt, and transcendence >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> grieve the dead and sense their absence /deeply/ >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> intuit that *love, justice, and beauty matter beyond survival* >> >>> >> >>> An afterlife answers questions biology alone can’t: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> Why does love feel permanent? >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> Why do injustice and suffering feel /wrong/, not just unpleasant? >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> Why does death feel like an interruption rather than an ending? >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ⚖️ 3. Moral Intuition Points Beyond Survival >> >>> >> >>> Every culture develops: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> moral laws (good vs evil) >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> accountability beyond mere power >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> praise for self-sacrifice >> >>> >> >>> But evolution alone explains *how* morals help groups survive — not >> *why* we feel they are /binding/ or /sacred/. >> >>> >> >>> An afterlife offers: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> ultimate justice >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> meaning for sacrifice >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> hope that goodness is not wasted >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 🌌 4. The Experience of Transcendence >> >>> >> >>> People across cultures report: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> mystical experiences >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> near-death experiences >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> encounters with “the divine” >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> overwhelming awe in nature, art, or love >> >>> >> >>> Even skeptics admit: >> >>> >> >>> Humans are wired to experience something that feels *bigger than >> the self*. >> >>> >> >>> Different religions interpret this *shared experience* differently. >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 🕯️ 5. Death Demands an Answer >> >>> >> >>> No culture treats death as /nothing/. >> >>> We: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> bury >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> mourn >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> remember >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> ritualize >> >>> >> >>> Belief in an afterlife may be humanity’s answer to: >> >>> >> >>> /“If love and consciousness matter, how can they simply vanish?”/ >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ✝️ 6. Why So Many Religions, Then? >> >>> >> >>> Because humans are: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> finite >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> cultural >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> historical >> >>> >> >>> Think of it like *many languages describing the same sky*: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> different symbols >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> different stories >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> overlapping truths >> >>> >> >>> Religions often agree on the *core intuitions*: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> reality has meaning >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> humans are accountable >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> love and justice matter >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> death is not the final word >> >>> >> >>> They differ on the *details*. >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 🧭 7. Three Major Explanations (Side-by-Side) >> >>> >> >>> Explanation What it Says >> >>> *Psychological* Belief helps humans cope with fear and death >> >>> *Evolutionary* Belief promotes social cohesion >> >>> *Philosophical / Religious* Belief reflects a real transcendent source >> >>> >> >>> These explanations *don’t cancel each other out* — they can overlap. >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 🕊️ A Thought Many Find Compelling >> >>> >> >>> C.S. Lewis put it this way: >> >>> >> >>> /“If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world >> can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another >> world.”/ >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 🧠 Bottom Line >> >>> >> >>> People across cultures believe in God and an afterlife because: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> humans universally seek meaning >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> love, justice, and beauty feel ultimate >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> death feels wrong, not natural >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> conscience feels real, not invented >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> transcendence is repeatedly experienced >> >>> >> >>> Different religions may be *human responses* to something real — or, >> as believers hold, *partial glimpses of a greater truth*. >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> If you’d like, I can explore this next from: >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> a *purely scientific viewpoint* >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> a *Christian philosophical argument* >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> a *skeptical critique* >> >>> >> >>> * >> >>> >> >>> or how *modern atheists respond* to this question >> >>> >> >>> Just tell me which angle you want. >> -- >> ¡sıɹƎ ןıɐH ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ >> ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, ἵνα >> σώσω. >> >> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / >> ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / > ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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