Ed, we got into the mess in Vietnam with much the same reasoning: if we admitted a mistake we wouldn't look good. But in reality, we only got to look far worse, than if we had simply said, say in 1965, 'Okay, we've done our bit. We're out of here." No one will complain if we leave Iraq tomorrow. Only those who would cheerfully see us bogged down there will regret it.
The idea that the US can bring democracy anywhere at the point of a gun is, I think, silly. We Americans don't like to admit it, but we did invade Iraq, and remain there solely by force of arms. The Iraqis have been around for a lot longer than we, and will do quite well without us. We did a good deed in getting rid of Saddam Hussein (regardless of the basic matter of our illegal action in invading Iraq to begin with), and now it is time for us to take a (small) bow, and get out. We have already overstayed our welcome. Cheers, Lawry > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ed Weick > Sent: Sat, August 30, 2003 4:11 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Will Bush become a Shia Moslem? Glass > half-full or glass half empty? > > > Lawry, I don't think that the US has the luxury of admitting that > it made a > mistake. Whether it did so or not, it would remain in the very > uncomfortable position of being the prime terrorist target. We mustn't > forget that Sept. 11, 2001 happened before the US wars on Afghanistan and > Iraq. A great many people were already very angry at the US before those > wars and are far angrier now. What the US has to do is sit on both > countries until they are pacified and fixed up, and especially > Iraq. It has > to demonstrate that it meant and business and continues to mean > it. It may > take a long time and it may cost a lot of money, but that is what > it has to > do. No matter what spin it puts on things, It can't just walk out saying > "Ooops, sorry, we didn't mean that". > > Niall Ferguson is a British historian who has recently published a book > called "Empire". I haven't read the book, but I saw him > interviewed on TV. > His main argument there was that the US is now an empire much like Britain > was in the 19th Century. The difference is that Britain behaved like an > empire and stayed in places like India long enough to bring about > a genuine > transition toward a more democratic and egalatarian system. He > doubted that > the US has the staying power to do so. > > Regards, Ed > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 9:51 AM > Subject: RE: [Futurework] Will Bush become a Shia Moslem? Glass > half-full or > glass half empty? > > > > The US (or some its policy leaders) may have taken on the role > of Empire, > > but it is not a role that the world wants us to take on, nor, do I and a > lot > > of other Americans want to take it on. So we made a (big) mistake. OK, > let's > > admit it and get back on the right path. It is utterly stupid > to compound > a > > mistake by 'doing it harder.' > > > > Yes, the Bushies are spin-masters -- so let the spin masters apply their > > talents to putting the best face on it. I can, by the way, think of > several > > easy AND legitimate ways of explaining to the world the many > and very good > > reasons for the shift in direction. I think the result is that the world > > would feel a whole better about the US and its future impact in > the world, > > and that the world would be a far better place for having an > America that > > eschews Empire and embraces tolerance and respectful living. The > extremists > > out there would be left without much of a cause against the US, and the > US, > > after some specific further fence-mending, could resume to generally > > positive role it has sought to play since WWII. > > > > The Bushies actually have a quite extraordinary opportunity to go down > > favorably in history, could they only see it. > > > > I don't know who Niall Ferguson is, but if he wants an Empire > that badly, > I > > suggest that he take it upon himself to create and pay for it, > and absorb > > its consequences. > > > > Cheers, > > Lawry > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ed Weick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Sat, August 30, 2003 9:30 AM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Brad McCormick, Ed.D.; Keith Hudson > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Will Bush become a Shia Moslem? Glass > > > half-full or glass half empty? > > > > > > > > > > The only thing the US can do to avoid what lies ahead is to withdraw > > > fully, > > > > now, declaring victory for the deposition of Saddam Hussein and > leaving > > > > behind a UN transition assistance role. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Lawry > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it can do that, Lawry. It's got itself in far too > > > deeply. To > > > withdraw now would be taken as a capitulation and huge sign > of weakness > to > > > all of the forces arrayed against it throughout the Muslim world. > > > It has to > > > hang in and be prepared to put its money where its mouth is. As Niall > > > Ferguson argues, it's taken on the role of empire, and it had > better be > > > prepared to play that role even if Bush turns out to be a one > > > term president > > > and a saner bunch takes over in Washington. > > > > > > Ed Weick > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Futurework mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
