Hi Dark, I see your point, but again this is probably where you and I differ when it comes to advanced user verses standard user comes in. If I am going to have a level editor I am going to want to script things, to be able to change the behavior of characters and items, rather than just place them on a map and let the engine take care of all the rest. It gives both the developer and the end user far more flex ability in creating new game content.
Let's use Montezuma's Revenge as a simple example here. When I wrote that game the skulls would roll left and right across the floor along the x axis and your character had to jump over them. I could create a simple level editor such as you describe just placing the skulls in various rooms, and let the engine take it from there, but it doesn't allow me to change or alter the behavior of those skulls. If I had a way to script levels, in particular the behavior of enemy objects, I could add additional enemies to the game such as the skulls that bounced up and down along the y axis without altering the engine itself which would be more of an advantage in the long term. That said, a simple 2d level editor that doesn't require scripting should be pretty easy to create all things considered. Basically, all we would need is a 2d grid of say 100 by 100, and a few pull down menus to draw content on the map such as doors, walls, fire pits, ropes, ledges, and other level content.. You would select the item to draw and it would then place it on your grid. As you move over the grid Sapi could announce door, rope, fire pit, ledge, or whatever was drawn in that position. So its not an overly difficult thing to do. I guess what I want to say is I'm not against the idea of a level editor so much as I'd like to have more control over the content I'd add and create. While it seems pretty simple to create a basic level editor that does not require any scripting I can see it being a bit limiting as well. Still, even if I did have a simple level editor, track editor, and other such tools I can see how they would increase the amount of playable content available in audio games. Cheers! On 4/1/13, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: > Hi Tom. > > I wasn't actually suggesting! shades of doom in particular should have an > editer since I'm quite aware of how David created the engine, and indeed > anyone who has played gma tank commander, packman talks, shades and sarah > would be, only that editers for exploration based games in particular can > provide a great deal of replay since obviously if the maze your entering and > > what you find in the maze can be varied, the game can vary hugely and have > large amounts of replay value as has been seen in doom, quake etc. > > while I do see the point that editable game content needs to be added from > the start rather than later (one reason the entombed dungeon creator never > got finished, though might be a possibility for an Entombed Ii), the > scripting business I see slightly differently, since while in a game like lw > > where objects can have different set behaviour according to a preset script, > > in many exploration or puzzle games which use a standard set of objects it's > > only necessary for a person to place them, perhaps with some modded sfx > rather than design their behaviour. > > In many graphical games, especially puzzle games like sokoban (the game robo > > E is based on), editers exist like this which are essentially paint > programs, and work rather the way a person would create a sudoku puzzle, by > > simply adding correct elements to the game board in a specific > configuration. > > this is actually one reason i really hoped Aprone would bring out a level > editer for his towers of war game, since then all you would need to do is > place the squares on the map for the various elements, defign what sort of > enemy you want, (optionally adding a sound file for their movement), and > defign how much hp the enemies have, how fast they move and how much bounty > > a player gets for slaying them. > > take your original montizuma's revenge game. Unlike the more complex mota > varients that game had a comparatively simple system. Your character could > only move horizontally (no analogue jumps), accept by climbing ladders or > ropes, and the only game elements were fire pits, lava pits, spiders, > snakes, sculls, electric barriers, red blue and white doors and keys, gems, > > gold and torches. > > while I know you didn't creat create the game to be editable, it wouldn't > have been beyond the realms of conception for someone to do so. > > of course, one major difference in audio game editer terms is back to the > overview problem, since while such an editer would be a comparatively easy > thing to overview visually (I have seen cracked editers for the original > prince of persia game that worked like that), it would not necessarily be so > > easy in an audio form, and one thing I do! know is that it's far easier to > create a paint program similar to the graphical editer and tie this to your > > game elements than it is to create an audio grid overview with game > elements, which is likely why scripting hear is a good idea as indeed has > been seen in all the sound rts maps created, however we've not yet seen an > editer for an exploration based audio game as yet, other than the tactical > battle and adventure scripting engines which are more going towards being > full game creation tools than map editers. > > Perhaps however, if you ever did create an audio based varient of a > comparatively symple game with exploration such as berzerk with it's mazes > or pitfall, these are things you could considder, indeed I believe this is > also something greymatter are thinking about with their sparcle game too. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
