Hi Tom, Your discussion of VB6 was one of the best explanations of the situation I’ve seen on this list.
We’re in the process of rewriting old titles to use the new Engine. The old ESP Softworks titles were all VB6. This is going to be an arduous transition, but we’ll get there, and the games will be better than ever when we do. It is unlikely we will continue supporting XP, though. As you stated, we have a Mexican stand off, and we can take this opportunity to move forward since Mac sales are so robust and Windows sales are definitely weaker. Sales of our new Windows titles have not warranted the effort we put into supporting XP. For future titles, if we can support it with minimal effort, we will. When the effort required to maintain support for XP exceeds a certain threshold though, we just can’t justify it. If Windows sales pick up and a lot of users are still using XP down the road, we may revisit the topic. As for those who blame Microsoft for incompatibilities with VB6, it is common for people with these types of views of the world to want to vilify any company once it reaches a certain size for absolutely everything, whether based on facts or not. I have no love for big corporations, either, but I’m also not naive enough to think that every one of them is the equivalent of Lord Voldemort. Remember, Apple is doomed because they use DRM on the music they sell in iTunes. They aren’t, and they don’t, and in fact haven’t had DRM in just about seven years now, but those kinds of knee jerk reactions lead to everything being someone else’s fault. Apple didn’t even have a choice with the DRM situation. The record labels dictated that situation. It’s unfortunate, because for the most part, people who take these kinds of views are hurting themselves more than anyone else. At least until they start spewing misinformation across the Internet. Microsoft surely hasn’t done developers, or themselves for that matter, any favors with a lot of idiotic decisions they’ve made over the last 15 years or so, but not everything is their fault, either. As I have said so often, the world is comprised of shades of gray. It is rarely, if ever, black and white. On Dec 19, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Thomas Ward <thomasward1...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Dark, > > Sigh...You are probably right about the fact that we have said all > that can be said on this subject. I feel like I'm in a boxing match > where neither person has made any impact on the other and all we are > doing is going round after round not getting anywhere. > > However, before I close this topic I feel the need to make a > correction. Visual Basic 6 apps and games still work on Windows 8. You > have to take some extra steps to make them work correctly, but it > certainly can be done. In fact, Microsoft released a patch for Windows > 8 not too long ago that extends support for older Visual Basic 6 apps > and games for the lifetime of Windows 8. So what you said about > Microsoft mucking up compatibility with Visual Basic 6 is not true. > They have in fact tried to maintain compatibility as long as necessary > while getting programmers to adopt .NET instead. > > Even if it were true can you possibly try and see it from their point > of view for once instead of looking at this from a biased position. > Visual Basic 6 was released in 1998. That was 15 years ago for a > totally different operating system and generation of computers than we > are dealing with today. There were several third-party ActiveX > components for 16-bit and 32-bit Windows that are no longer supported > by their respective companies causing major problems with VB 6 > applications. Since those ActiveX components are not made by > Microsoft, not supported by Microsoft, those problems are strictly the > problem with the third-party companies that developed them for Windows > 98 etc. there are of course plenty of other problems with Visual Basic > 6, and Microsoft made the right decision by phasing out the language > and components in exchange for a newer and better technology called > .NET which is far superior to VB 6 ever was. > > The problem is this.. Despite .NET being better in various ways many > people were happy with VB 6 and chose not to upgrade to .NET. A lot of > VI gamers so no benefit to them in learning VB .NET so didn't. That is > why most of the games out there are still written in VB 6, and really > should be rewritten or updated. That's not Microsoft's fault that > various accessible games were written in Visual Basic 6. Microsoft > made it clear 10 years ago that developers should begin migrating to > .NET, and if developers didn't listen that is their problem. They were > told what is what, and yet despite all that Microsoft does maintain > some basic compatibility for VB 6 because they want you and others to > upgrade, but they also want to begin migrating developers away from > old outdated technologies too. > > With the accessible games community we seem to be caught in a classic > chicken and egg type situation. A lot of blind users will not upgrade > to Windows 7 or Windows 8 until game developers stop producing games > for XP. Game developers know most of their customers use XP so are > still developing games for XP, and are not looking at developing games > for Windows 8 because there are not enough customers to justify such a > change in development. One side or the other needs to break the cycle > or it is just going to continue for several years to come neither side > moving because they haven't gotten what they wanted, and will not > until the other side takes the initiative. > > To give you an example a lot of blind game developers are still using > Visual Basic 6. Well we already know it was developed for Windows 95 > and Windows 98, but works fine on XP. As long as the lion's share of > blind gamers continue using XP there is no incentive for Developer X > to upgrade to VB .NET or something else. Although, there are some > users like me using Windows 8.1 and we can put pressure on him/her to > make more games for Windows 8 they aren't going to listen until a > critical mass is reached and most of those XP users switch to Windows > 8. However, most of those XP users aren't going to switch to Windows 8 > until they absolutely have to and they are waiting on Developer X to > drop XP support which Developer X won't until the XP users switch. So > both sides are waiting on the other to blink first and we have a bit > of a Mexican stand-off. > > I do not know what the answer is, but Microsoft really isn't at fault > for the situation regardless of what you think. Accessible game > developers could have began phasing out VB 6 a long time ago and > didn't. Accessible gamers could upgrade to Windows 8 and request that > game developers get with the times but won't. Until one or the other > decides to get off their apathy we will have the same old problem. > > Cheers! > > On 12/19/13, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: >> Well tom I don't really believe there's much else to say since for me, >> security isn't an issue due to fhtird party software and I'd rather run avg >> >> than have the harrassment of running windows 8 and a virtual xp system. >> maybe that's different for you. >> >> if microsoft of course hadn't mucked up compatiblity with vb6 applications >> >> and dos programs, well I'd be happy to upgrade even with relearning the >> interface, and indeed I imagine everyone else currently running xp would as >> >> well, so it's certain where the blaime for this situation belongs. This is >> actually one prime advantage Ios seems to have over windows since it >> doesn't break existing programs when upgrading, and is another reason I'd >> like to investigate the actual bennifits (if any), of mac as opposed to >> windows 7 since if I've got to run xp in a virtual machine anyway, well it >> doesn't make too much difference whether I use mac or windows. >> >> Beware the Grue! >> >> Dark. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. 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